Episode 233: #Mouth Taping for Sleep Apnea--Help of Harm?

In this episode of The Aging Well Podcast, Dr. Jeff Armstrong and Corbin Bruton explore the trending topic of mouth taping and its efficacy in managing obstructive sleep apnea. They discuss recent research findings from Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School, revealing that mouth taping might worsen the condition for some individuals. The conversation underscores the complexity of managing sleep apnea, emphasizing personalized approaches and professional medical advice. Corbin shares his personal journey with sleep apnea and the benefits of using a CPAP machine while highlighting lifestyle changes that can improve sleep quality. This episode serves as a critical guide for those dealing with sleep apnea or considering viral trends for sleep solutions.

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Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the Aging Well Podcast, I'm Dr. Jeff Armstrong here with my co host Corbin Groom. In this episode, we're diving into a critical topic, sleep apnea. We'll discuss some recent findings on how a popular trend, mouth taping, may not be as helpful as people think when it comes to managing obstructive sleep apnea. This is a big issue because sleep apnea impacts so many aspects of health and limits our efforts to age well.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 0:29

Sleep apnea can lead to serious health risks, high blood pressure, heart disease, and even cognitive decline.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 0:37

I hadn't really considered what a big deal sleep apnea was until we had the Clionskis on in episode 120, and they talked about the risk factors of all types of dementia.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 0:49

Yeah, we've talked about the importance of sleep, and this viral trend of mouth taping, especially on social media platforms like TikTok, it's, it's raising concerns. It's means to keep people from mouth breathing during sleep, but a recent study shows that it might not work for everyone, and it could actually make things worse for some people.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 1:13

there was a study done at Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School by Yang and colleagues. I believe it was, they looked at the effects of mouth closure on patients. with obstructive sleep apnea, and obstructive sleep apnea is where your airway closes, gets blocked during sleep, leading to pauses in breathing. the popular idea behind mouth taping is that keeping the mouth closed will force nasal breathing, which can improve airflow. but according to the researchers, that's not always the case.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 1:46

Yeah, it's pretty interesting. Looks like they tested this idea by closing the mouth of participants while they were in a drug induced sleep, right? And what they found was that while some people saw an increase in airflow, others, particularly those who rely more on mouth breathing, actually had worse airflow when their mouth was closed. So, it wasn't a one size fits all solution.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 2:12

Yeah, that's right. For patients who had moderate mouth breathing, Manually closing their mouth led to, I believe it was a 27. 8 percent increase in airflow. But for those that relied heavily on mouth breathing, who had significant obstructions to the soft palate, their airflow dropped to about 40%. that's a huge decrease, which means it's forcing them to breathe their nose, which could make those sleep apnea symptoms much worse, not better.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 2:46

So while this trend is gaining a lot of attention, 7 million views on TikTok,

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 2:52

Wow,

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 2:53

according to a commentary that accompanied this study, it's clear that this is not something people should be doing without careful consideration. Some of these videos are showing people literally taping their mouth shut, which sounds a little bit extreme to me,

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 3:09

it's very extreme. And the problem is that very little objective data to support mouth taping, especially when it comes to people with severe forms of OSA or obstructive sleep apnea or other nasal kind of obstruction. Researchers in this area really have emphasized the need for clinical studies before making any kind of recommendations and kind of people not to jump on this idea of preventing mouth breathing, in all OSA patients.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 3:44

I think that's what the key message is here. While the concept of nasal breathing has some merit, it's not something that should be universally applied. Especially not without professional guidance. Now, if we take a step back, it really highlights how complex managing OSA can be. It's not just about one technique like mouth taping.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 4:06

Absolutely. And the best approach to controlling sleep apnea usually involves a combination of methods. I would strongly recommend that individuals see a sleep specialist. I'm actually in a process of doing that myself. I'm curious to see what's going to be the outcome. I'm hoping I don't have to deal with any kind of treatment for sleep apnea. But for many people, continuous positive airway pressure or CPAP is the gold standard. this device can keep your airway open by delivering a steady stream of air through the mask while you sleep. there's other lifestyle changes can help as well. Losing weight, avoiding alcohol before bed, and really just practicing good sleep hygiene

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 4:47

Yeah, those lifestyle factors can make a big difference. But let's get back to the study for a moment. Now what I found fascinating was the fact that it wasn't just mouth taping. they manually closed the mouth of patients and altered between closing and opening them on different breaths to see the impacts. That allowed them to track the changes in airflow in real time. they could tell when patients soft palates were causing issues.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 5:17

Exactly, and that's why this study is so important. It gives us a better understanding of how different parts of the airway, like the soft palate, can affect breathing. obstructions in the soft palate, nasal breathing can be particularly challenging, so they will naturally switch to mouth breathing. forcing their mouth shut without addressing the underlying issue, can backfire.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 5:40

what's the takeaway for our listeners? Especially those dealing with sleep apnea, or those concerned about their sleep health.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 5:48

the main takeaway is there's no quick fix for obstructive sleep apnea. It's a serious condition that requires a personalized approach. you're considering mouth taping or any other trendy treatment, talk to your doctor first. there may be underlying factors like soft palate obstruction or nasal issues that need to be addressed.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 6:11

And like we always say, your health is unique to you. What works for one person might not work for another. So it's important to consult with a healthcare professional and find what's best for you.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 6:25

That's a great point, Corbin, and it's all about finding what works for you. And that usually means taking a more holistic approach. combining medical advice, lifestyle changes, and sometimes more advanced treatments so Corbyn, you deal with sleep apnea and you use a CPAP. What's been your experience with dealing with the condition?

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 6:47

So my experience is I've been going through a journey with it. When I first got diagnosed with, sleep apnea, it, it made a lot of sense. cause I was waking up with. I had a headache. I was having fogginess. My joints were hurting, like down in my wrist. And I, and my heart would just randomly flutter throughout the day. And that was kind of like a, okay, I gotta go see what's, see what's wrong. Plus, I was snoring loud. Now I, I've always snored ever since I was a little kid. and I know this is going to sound funny, but at the time when I took that, to see if I actually had sleep apnea. I actually got a noise complaint, in the apartments I was living in. I know you're laughing, but that's how loud I snore. I just wanted to get it checked out and I got diagnosed I was given a, CPAP machine They said, you know, you got to use it every day for the first 93 days and if you do then your insurance covers it And if you don't then you have to pay out of pocket So that was motivation enough to use it every day. And what's crazy is when I first Used it within that first month. I lost like 30 pounds which is crazy to think I wasn't doing anything different with my workout routine. I wasn't doing anything different with my diet. It's just getting that sleep. I ended up losing, 30 pounds, right off the get go, just from that first 30 days. and throughout the day, I was just more present. I was more cognitive. I was, I was able to absorb information, but it made my face super raw. I have to use the full mask that covers everything. I'm not one of those people that just get the little elephant mask. We tried it but then my mouth opens up and so I have to have the full mask It's been an interesting experience because I haven't been using my CPAP Recently, I just got the new one. My CPAP got recalled. So I just got sent a new one But they didn't They didn't send me the actual machine, they sent me a little box that I unscrew the old machine and shove it into the old one and screw it back in. since we're in the process of moving, I just, I haven't set that up yet. but yeah, my experience has been interesting.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 9:25

Yeah, I hadn't really thought about whether or not I had sleep apnea. I know I snore a fair amount. my daughter particularly complains about my snoring. Pam, my wife also, comments that I snore. if I fall asleep on an airplane, I'm usually waking myself up with a snort, which, you know, I look around, I kind of feel a little embarrassed that, you know, did anybody hear that? And, when we interviewed the Konski in episode one 20, that kind of prompted me, you know, maybe I should check into this a little bit more. I didn't really worry about it. I didn't think I was losing a lot of sleep. I. feel relatively refreshed. also starting to monitor my sleep patterns, after we had Dr. Faoro on talking about, monitoring, the sympathetic nervous system. I got the Garmin watch and I started to notice that my sleep quality was not that good, that I was not getting good restorative sleep. And so I reached out to my doctor and said, I had heard from these doctors that, sleep apnea is a pretty significant issue. I'm not getting the most sleep. And, you know, I'm interested in, you know, maybe looking into whether or not I might have sleep apnea it kind of got delayed and I didn't really push anything until my last appointment with my doctor several weeks ago. So I've just recently had an appointment with the sleep clinic locally, and I'm going to get tested. So we'll see where that goes. it was interesting, you know, the number of different questions they're asking and, you know, trying to really probe into, you know, do you grind your teeth? Do you, you know, do you snore, you know, what kind of sleep are you getting? Are you waking up, you know, are you snorting, you know, are you, Waking yourself up with a snort, they ask a lot of really important questions And there's a lot of variability in terms of what causes sleep apnea and any of us could have anything from moderate to very severe generally if it's Minimal they might not do much with it. But if it's severe Based on, you know, the conversations we've had with a number of different doctors about the importance of sleep and brain health, it's important to get it checked out and have it, you know, it. And so what I learned is that CPAP is the first line of correction. they also have mouth guards that can push the jaw out a little bit. So if you're a teeth grinder, you might be grinding your teeth because you're trying to force those airways open. And then, I think the third, more severe could be certain, surgical treatments to correct the jaw or the palate, But, I'm hoping that it does something to help restore the sleep a little bit.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 12:39

Yeah, that's, right. that was one of the things I learned when I was going through, Because I went into an actual sleep facility where they monitor you overnight and they give you little pamphlets and stuff and there are different things, like you were saying, that cause sleep apnea, some can be you're overweight, some can be you have an overbite and so your jaw is pushed back more, or you can just be like me Where you just were born with a freakishly large head and so your neck muscles Just close on themselves at night But yeah, they there's different types of c paps. There's the nose one, the mouth one. There's a full head One which I can't imagine that being comfortable

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 13:23

wearing that.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 13:24

at all, there's There's c pap where it just pushes air in There's CPAPs where it can push oxygen in. There's the kind where it's just a mouth guard that pushes your, jaw out. I have an uncle, and that's what he uses. He doesn't need a machine. He just uses that, and he doesn't snore at all, and he gets way better sleep, And then there's also the surgery one. That's kind of a newer thing. that's coming out. You can actually see commercial. I think there was a commercial on the Superbowl last year about it. And it's like they put a device right above the heart and it's supposed to help open up your airway. I don't know how. But if you google it, they go into details on their website.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 14:08

Yeah.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 14:09

that just doesn't seem safe. I don't know, putting something foreign in my body, seems weird.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 14:16

probably like a pacemaker.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 14:17

totally like a pacemake, but it's to help open the airways, but it just seems scary to me.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 14:25

I don't know, in some ways I think I'd rather have that. have to worry about, you know, putting a mouth guard in every night or having to sleep with some apparatus on my face. I just don't feel like I'd be that comfortable with that. but I'm hoping mine's kind of minor. it's definitely worth considering when we talked to Clionskis and they were, referencing just how many people have sleep apnea that aren't aware of it. And, in our, conversation with Dr. Assim Desai. Talking about AFib and how that connects with sleep apnea and brain health it's worth any of the listeners, viewers, if you find you snore, if you're finding your sleep quality isn't as good as it should be, it's not a matter of, are you waking up feeling refreshed? Are you getting a good night's sleep. lately I've improved my capacity to stay asleep getting up far less frequently But when I look at my sleep scores, it's not restorative sleep. I'm sleeping for a good 7. 2 hours per night. That's pretty consistent. Cause I got that bedtime rising time, but it varies in terms of the consistency and quality of restorative sleep. And like you said, You lost how many pounds in the process of

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 15:44

I lost 31 or 32 pounds in the first 30 days like it just fell off of me and to the point where

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 15:53

belly just fell off.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 15:55

No, what was crazy is I wasn't losing muscle. My strength was actually wasn't changing anything in my workout routine at all. And my strength was going up. I just was fat and inflammation was just, I was shrinking. I was dropping pant sizes, shirt sizes. it was wild.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 16:18

I'm sure it's getting your circadian rhythms and your cortisol levels and hormonal levels all ironed out because getting better sleep can have a huge effect. And so for many of us, and that's where I'm at right now, too, my weight. is kind of stalled. I'm not overly fat to a tremendous extent, but I'm not able to get leaner as I'd like to. And I feel like my recovery from exercise has diminished a little bit. I'm pretty certain if I get my sleep hygiene in order most of that's going to change. And I'll probably see a drop in at least 10, 20 pounds of body fat. I really hope this episode has given some valuable insights to our listeners about sleep apnea and the importance of, looking into it if we have any concerns about our sleep. more importantly, the risks of following viral trends like mouth taping. personally, I'd like to just kind of, Thank everybody, for listening to the podcast. Obviously, you know, follow and like the podcast. anything to add

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 17:22

I would just say, health is really, really important. most of us can focus on our health as far as, You know doing stuff we could we could exercise more we can focus on what we put in our bodies like our nutrition we can focus on Trying to synchronize our circadian rhythm by limiting blue light but what we can't focus on Is what happens when we are unconscious? And sleep, we can, we could set a set bedtime, but if we're not getting an adequate amount of sleep that affects everything your whole body, your mental health, your emotional health, it affects you physically. the dangers of people that are diagnosed with sleep disorder. Sleep apnea is crazy as far as higher risk of heart attacks as far as higher level of blood clots is fire higher higher risk of dementia. So why not eliminate that factor altogether and Give yourself a sleep study see what you got. And then if you have the opportunity to take a sleep sleep apnea or c pap or Do it.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 18:40

Yeah. And don't rely solely on, the fact that I get to bed at a specific time and I'm not waking up a lot during the night. Um, you may be getting your seven to eight hours of sleep each night, but be aware of what's the quality of that sleep. Is it restorative? And if it's not, what are the things that we can do in regards to sleep hygiene? we can limit alcohol consumption. alcohol is probably one of the biggest things for myself personally that will disrupt that quality of sleep. I could get a really high sleep score on a night that I'm not consuming any alcohol. if I consume Even a serving of alcohol, it can have an effect on my sleep. So keeping that in check, having a bedtime, getting up, limiting alcohol, limiting spicy foods, eating as late at night, trying to eat your dinner earlier in the day, taking a bit more of a circadian fasting approach rather than just a simply intermittent fasting approach, you know, how to keep the bedroom cool. Dark, maybe wear eye coverings if you need to. Keep yourself cool at night. Sleep in a comfortable bed. Anything you add to improve your sleep hygiene.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 19:53

It's gonna sound silly. I can sleep anywhere. I I really I really can I I can sleep with I know it's not ideal. I know we talk about it if I close my eyes Everything's black so I can sleep with the lights on I know where it's not recommended. But yeah, I like to sleep in a cool area and then wake up In a warmer area, so maybe if you That would be my advice for individual. I feel like I get a better night's sleep if I wake up warmer Not hot. I don't want to be hot. I don't want to be sweaty. just Warmer if I go to bed in a cooler temperature, but then wake up in a warmer temperature for me I feel like I got the best night's sleep if that's the case

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 20:38

cool room with a nice warm comforter over you.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 20:41

Yeah, but if you wake up and it's cold and your nose is cold and you're like, Oh, I just feel like I don't ever want to leave the bed. But if I wake up and I'm like, Oh, feel great. that's me, but I don't know if that's for everyone.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 20:55

And I think if those aren't working for you and there's some supplements that, you know, can benefit us as well. We had, know, in episode, what was it? Two 15. We had Patrick Sullivan, Jr. Talked about magnesium. You and I have both tried that. hasn't had a dramatic effect on either of us in terms of sleep quality. I feel like I sleep better and longer, but it's not necessarily giving me restorative sleep. I've been trying, and I can't recall which episode it is, but we had Dr. Lewis on I've been trying his daily brain care supplements and that seems to be helping my sleep as well. That's with the polysaccharides. check out that episode. but again, those nutritional supplementations may have a slight benefit, if you have sleep apnea, you're basically, Fighting an uphill battle, if you can deal with the sleep apnea, the supplements are going to give you greater benefit in terms of your sleep quality and restorative sleep and keeping those hormones in order.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 22:01

I think you also bring up a good point there's no magic pill or supplement, but what you take can have an effect on your sleep quality. Some of us are actually allergic and have a mild allergy to certain foods. gluten is all over the, but even, even certain dairy products, it causes inflammation, which causes swelling, which we go almost our whole lives without recognizing that's what causes the snoring. It can be a small, mild case of inflammation, from a tiny, allergy, and it throws off the whole sleep.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 22:44

if you're having difficulty with sleep, whether it's, feeling refreshed in the morning or not, being able to sleep consistently throughout the night, journaling can really help, what did I eat last night? how did what I ate affect my sleep quality? Did I have alcohol? What did I do right before bed? Did I read a book or was on my computer? All those things can help us piece together the information we need to get better sleep quality. be checked for sleep apnea. if you have obstructive sleep apnea, get that fixed and then start fixing all the other sleep hygiene aspects as well, anything else to add?

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 23:24

I would encourage all of our listeners to, if they think that they have sleep apnea and they're like, ah, I don't know, I don't know if I should, I'm just encourage them. If they just even do a quick Google search, it'll pull up, it'll pull a graph, little chart. Of the impacts that sleep apnea can do. And if you're like, wow, I really don't want to do any of those. Then again, I would just encourage you to take the steps to, figure out if you have sleep apnea and what you can do in your particular, realm of sleep apnea to eliminate that.

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 24:02

the answer probably will not be found on Tik TOK.

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 24:05

No,

jeff_1_01-04-2025_081009: 24:05

with all of that being said, hopefully everybody is going to get their sleep under control, deal with their sleep apnea, until then everybody just stay healthy and keep

corbin-bruton_5_01-04-2025_081009: 24:17

Aging well.

24:19

Thank you for listening. I hope you benefited from today's podcast and until next time, keep aging well.