Episode 221: Collagen Craze: Real Benefits or Just Hype?

In this episode of the Aging Well Podcast, Dr. Jeff Armstrong and co-host Corbin Bruton delve into the proposed benefits of collagen supplements. They explore marketing claims, scientific research, and practical dietary advice to help you make an informed decision about supplementing with collagen. The discussion touches on collagen's role in skin and joint health, the effectiveness of supplements versus natural food sources, and the importance of a balanced diet and lifestyle for aging well. Tune in to learn what really works and what might just be hype.

Articles referenced:

Al-Atif H. Collagen Supplements for Aging and Wrinkles: A Paradigm Shift in the Fields of Dermatology and Cosmetics. Dermatol Pract Concept. 2022 Jan 1;12(1):e2022018. doi: 10.5826/dpc.1201a18. PMID: 35223163; PMCID: PMC8824545.

Clark KL, Sebastianelli W, Flechsenhar KR, Aukermann DF, Meza F, Millard RL, Deitch JR, Sherbondy PS, Albert A. 24-Week study on the use of collagen hydrolysate as a dietary supplement in athletes with activity-related joint pain. Curr Med Res Opin. 2008 May;24(5):1485-96. doi: 10.1185/030079908x291967. Epub 2008 Apr 15. PMID: 18416885. 

Pullar JM, Carr AC, Vissers MCM. The Roles of Vitamin C in Skin Health. Nutrients. 2017 Aug 12;9(8):866. doi: 10.3390/nu9080866. PMID: 28805671; PMCID: PMC5579659.

Schunck M, Zague V, Oesser S, Proksch E. Dietary Supplementation with Specific Collagen Peptides Has a Body Mass Index-Dependent Beneficial Effect on Cellulite Morphology. J Med Food. 2015 Dec;18(12):1340-8. doi: 10.1089/jmf.2015.0022. Epub 2015 Nov 12. PMID: 26561784; PMCID: PMC4685482. 

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Transcript

0:05

Welcome to the Aging Well Podcast. I'm Dr. Jeff Armstrong with my co host, Corbin Roof. In this episode, we're diving into the proposed benefits of collagen supplements and the science behind their purported effectiveness. We'll explore marketing claims, what research says, and whether you should consider supplementing your diet with collagen protein to age well.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 0:26

Dr. Armstrong, it seems like everywhere I look, seeing more and more ads or videos on these collagen proteins. Now, I bet our viewers and listeners are wondering whether it lives up to the hype.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 0:40

Yeah, I see the same claims. So let's start with just some of the basics.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 0:46

Okay, let's start with the basics. what exactly is collagen?

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 0:50

Well, collagen is a protein. It's pretty abundant in our bodies. It's in connective tissue, cartilage, our bones and tendons. it plays a crucial role in giving our skin structure and keeping our joints strong. the problem is as we age, our natural collagen production begins to slow down. And that's when we start to see, The appearance of wrinkles, joint stiffness, and other signs of what is traditionally perceived as aging.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 1:18

So that's a big reason why collagen supplements have become so popular. People are hoping that by adding the collagen to their diet, they can make up for their body declining the production of it. I've seen it added in coffees, smoothies, and more. With claims that it'll make my skin look smoother and even reduce symptoms.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 1:42

Exactly, and the real question is, does it work? can collagen supplements actually boost collagen levels in our body, or is it just clever marketing?

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 1:52

is there even science behind collagen supplementation?

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 1:56

let's dig into some of the research, because I think studies have shown some promise. Especially when it comes to skin. for instance, there was a 2017 study by Poehler and others in nutrients that found that combining vitamin C with hydrolyzed collagen helped decrease wrinkle depth and improve skin elasticity and hydration. Schunk and others in 2015 noted that taking about two and a half grams of collagen for six months may help reduce cellulite. Although, it's important to note that one of these studies was sponsored by the collagen companies.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 2:38

sponsored studies, always make me a little sceptical, It's like, how much can I trust the research that's funded by the people who are trying to sell the products?

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 2:50

That's a fair point, and I wholeheartedly agree. I think it's definitely something to keep in mind as we look at some of these results. now the benefits of taking vitamin C make some sense because that is an antioxidant.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 3:04

Okay, so that reminds me of when you interviewed Dr. Patel in episode 190. Isn't glutathione considered a master antioxidant?

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 3:15

Yeah, and looking at the literature and listening to Dr. Patel, reading his book, I think there's a better case for glutathione. for the maintaining of skin health as we age.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 3:27

Okay, so what about collagen? Do you think it helps?

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 3:31

a recent review in Dermatology, Practical and Conceptual suggested that collagen supplements could indeed help reduce wrinkles and boost skin hydration. so there seems to be some scientific support of the idea that collagen might help slow down skin aging, but I don't know.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 3:51

Alright, so it might help with skin. But what about joints of people are taking collagen. Hoping that it will relieve joint pain, those dealing with arthritis.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 4:04

Right, and there's some evidence supporting that too. studies indicate that hydrolyzed collagen might help improve joint pain by replacing synovial fluids and supporting cartilage health. there was one study from Penn State University that was done by Clark and others in 2008. That showed that athletes who took 10 grams of collagen daily for 24 weeks reported less joint pain, even when engaging in physical activities.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 4:33

Now that's pretty interesting. It suggests that collagen could be more than just a beauty trend. It might help keep people active as well.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 4:45

Now, Corbin, let's talk about where collagen comes from. there are natural food sources that are rich in collagen. Things like beef broth, skin on chicken, and certain fish. So, why would someone opt for a supplement instead of just eating these foods?

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 5:02

that's a good question. to me, it seems like a lot of people see supplements as that quick fix. But, is that really the best option?

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 5:12

our bodies break down collagen into amino acids so taking a collagen supplement might not be more effective than just simply eating collagen rich foods, like tougher cuts of meat or consuming foods that are rich in amino acids like proline and glycine, cause these help to build collagen.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 5:30

Nutritionists often suggest that a diet rich in vitamin C can boost your body's natural collagen production. think of foods like bell peppers, citrus fruit, and even broccoli.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 5:46

Yeah, it's just a reminder that diet quality matters more than adding a scoop of powder to your coffee.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 5:53

Plus, there's always the safety aspect with supplements. Many collagen powders aren't regulated, so you don't always know what you're going to be getting. With whole foods, you can be a lot more confident about what you put on your plate.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 6:09

Alright, let's switch gears here and talk a little bit about marketing. Now, collagen supplements are a big business, and companies often make very bold claims about the benefits. while we've mentioned there is some evidence to support that collagen does play a role in skin and joint health, the marketing Companies really tend to over exaggerate those benefits. What do you think about the way products are marketed?

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 6:36

they definitely lean into the fear of aging. You see it all the time, right? Ads promising you younger looking skin, or pain free joints, playing on people's desires to look and feel younger. this is a powerful message, but not always backed by solid science.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 6:56

there's a potential for collagen to help, it's not a miracle cure. A lot of studies that show benefits are small and have some bias. Like we mentioned, one sponsored by a collagen company. The best results seem to come from a more balanced approach. Using supplements, if you like. But also focusing in on diet that helps to support collagen production more naturally.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 7:20

let's give our listeners some practical advice. If someone wants to maintain healthy collagen levels as they age, what should they focus on?

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 7:29

Well, first, let's think about what foods are going to be high in collagen. we want to eat a diet that is balanced So we want a diet that's balanced with protein, high protein foods like meat, fish, eggs, plant based options like soy and beans. We want to combine this with vitamin C rich foods like citrus fruits, green leafy vegetables. If you're already eating a healthy diet, a collagen supplement may give you a little extra boost. But it's not going to be a replacement for those good habits. If you're looking to promote healthy skin, I would lean into foods that are rich in protein, antioxidants, and promote high levels of things like glutathione.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 8:10

I'd also add that lifestyle factors matter a lot. Smoking, excessive sun exposure, and high sugar diets. These can all break down collagen faster. avoiding these is going to be key. And of course, make sure to get your regular exercise in. It's great for overall joint health, which collagen is often marketed to support.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 8:36

Yeah, and I totally agree. And really, a little bit of prevention can go a long way in keeping our skin and joints healthy. mentioned smoking, sun exposure. You know, if you look at the skin of people who smoke regularly or people who are out in the sun to a great extent, Their skin tends to look older, even at a younger age. you know, you notice kind of that breakdown, the wrinkles of the skin around people that are, chain smokers, or, you know, just the leathery look of people who are spending way too much time in the sun. Those should be good tips that we need to avoid smoking for so many reasons. I mean, that's one of our pillars. Second is, getting out in the sun is good from the standpoint of boosting our vitamin D. And, you know, giving us some level of health, but too much of a good thing can be really bad. so, trying to be a bit more preventative in how we take care of our skin, how we take care of our joints, our cartilage, our ligaments, and so on

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 9:36

So Dr. Armstrong, from something that I've heard in order to naturally boost levels is if an individual does high, high repetition, that can help with skin elasticity. And when I say high repetition, I'm talking about like light, super lightweight in the 50 to even a hundred rep range. In your study or into any of your research, have you come across this to be the case as well?

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 10:10

Well, I haven't done any studies myself on that, but looking at the literature, I would be highly skeptical of any of the literature supporting that. again, because you can manipulate a study to get the results you're looking for. If you're looking to say high repetitions are going to be good for your skin health, then you're going to see those results. I'd be a little bit skeptical in terms of why do high repetitions just for your skin and your collagen? Daily physical activity, being active, is going to have a greater benefit because isn't that still light weights, higher repetitions? So, I wouldn't be doing it in the weight room. I would be focusing on You know, heavier weights in the weight room to get stronger, to build muscle, to boost metabolism of the muscle and focus on getting my skin healthy through a proper diet and increasing my regular physical activity with some of that activity being outdoors.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 11:11

Right. I guess the reason why I ask is I came across one of the fear ads for collagen and they were focusing on skin elasticity for individuals who have gone through a weight loss journey and have. extra loose skin they were saying that the collagen supplement can actually help with that elasticity of the skin. But then I, I was like, that doesn't seem right. And I did a little research, not a lot. And what I came across was, well, you can get that same skin elasticity from doing higher repetition of weights because you're bringing, more blood flow to that area and it's providing it with more nutrients. But again, it was a really, really low level case study where they didn't even have that many, individuals that were in practice. So I was just wanting to pick your brain on it.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 12:42

Going to help with the skin elasticity What did you do in the process of losing all that weight? Most people are gonna be losing that weight in conjunction with exercise And so the amount of exercise that you'd be doing to significantly Put yourself into a hypo caloric state to be able to lose body fat is likely to be higher repetitions, lower number of repetitions, lower amounts of weight. So if that is the case, then wouldn't the skin elasticity be improving? as we are losing the weight. It just seems a little bit suspect to me. Now I do think collagen can have a little bit of a benefit there in terms of helping the skin to kind of restore itself as we do lose the weight, kind of build back that elasticity or kind of maintain or retain the elasticity. But I think, hydration is going to be very important in that. the antioxidants can play a very crucial role. especially since, interviewing Dr Patel, reading his book and beginning to take glutathione myself. I think that is a much healthier process than, trying to take a collagen supplement. Not that the collagen supplement itself wouldn't have some benefit, but we've got to realize that when those proteins break down, everything that we ingest into our body is broken down in our stomach. Any amino acids that are present in a collagen dense food are going to break down into those constituent amino acids. And then our body has to put all those back together at the cellular level. So even consuming glutathione doesn't necessarily get glutathione to the muscle. It basically just breaks down, gives us the components to rebuild it again. And if all the right pieces aren't there, it's not going to rebuild itself. It's kind of like, if you tore down a house to every nail and Uh, board and piece of drywall and everything else and then tried to rebuild that house. There's a good chance you might lose a little bit of that structure in the process of breaking it down and then building it up again. Does that make sense?

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 14:52

That, yeah, that totally makes sense.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 14:54

So I'm a little bit skeptical of any supplement that claims It can get through your digestive tract into your body and be intact when it gets to the cell again. because your body breaks things down, everything is, made up of various elements in the body. those elements are broken down and used where they're needed collagen as a supplement could be beneficial because we are putting the constituents to build collagen into the body, but that collagen is going to get to the tissue as the collagen that you've consumed. I'm highly suspect of that.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 15:32

Now, I know some of the supplement companies, break down the different types of collagen. I think there's like collagen 1 and 2 are the most common, and sometimes they'll break down into a collagen 4. I don't think I've ever seen a collagen 3. Do you know the difference between the collagens, or is it just collagen?

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 15:56

I don't know enough to really answer that. When you're talking from a supplement standpoint, I think you're starting to dive more into the marketing strategies as opposed to what is really highly effective. it's the amino acids are what we're after. And remember, we have 20 amino acids. There's really only a handful of essential amino acids. if we're getting a well balanced diet, all those amino acids are going to be brought into our body. We're going to use them where they need to be used. And we just need to have them all in The appropriate balance to be able to make all the different things that we're going to need to make. And so, I, I, not that I would discourage anybody from taking a collagen supplement, particularly as we're looking to age well. But, there are far better things that we could spend our money on. If you're really limited in resources, just eat a healthy diet. get plenty of those green leafy vegetables, things that are high in vitamin C. get, food products that are going to have the constituents that we need to make glutathione. So, getting magnesium into our diet, eating nuts, legumes, again, going back to what we have talked about as being healthy diets, the basic Mediterranean Nordic diets, those healthier sourced and natural foods are going to do the best to help maintain our skin. Without having a lot of supplementation,

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 17:29

Well, you mentioned hydration as well. do you think when we are putting on oils or lotions on the skin, I mean that, that helps with skin elasticity, that helps with rejuvenating our skin, that helps with everything that these collagen supplements are marketing. not just put it in a, it in a lotion form? makes sense, that doesn't make any sense.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 17:57

are you just shifting your marketing plan there? even with the lotions and all that kind of stuff. I know that's a billion dollar industry for people trying to look young. I've seen enough people in my lifetime that look really young for their age, that put nothing on their skin. They don't take any extra supplements. They look the way they look because they exercise regularly. They are physically active. They get plenty of water to hydrate their body. They're eating a well balanced diet. They don't smoke. They don't spend too much time in the sun. And, lo and behold, their skin looks phenomenal.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 18:34

They must be living in the northwest like we do. Cause, there's no sun. And, man, it's just been cloudy. And cloudy, and cloudy, and rainy. obviously it's winter time. As we're recording this episode. But, it's like, man. It's kinda, I mean, don't get me wrong. I love it. This is my state, I grew up here, but it's just, it's funny cause it's, we're so vitamin D deficient, it blows my mind.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 19:05

Well, you can still get outside. Even though it's cloudy, you can still get some vitamin D. True.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 19:11

but not as much, right?

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 19:16

I think it's getting outdoors. we don't need much direct exposure to the sun. We know the UV rays are bad for our skin, but getting outside even on a cloudy day like we have today, it's going to be beneficial for us, in ways beyond which what supplements can make up for.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 19:34

it helps with our circadian rhythm as well, doesn't it?

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 19:37

Getting circulation and getting just good healthy vibes is much better. I mean, if you're smiling, your skin is going to be less wrinkled than if you're frowning. we're getting painful wrinkles around our eyes, the crow's feet and things like that, just from stress and everything else. You know, liver more relaxed, meditative. contemplative kind of life, eat a healthy diet, manage our six principles, exercise and physical activity, get adequate sleep, eat a healthy diet, maintain a healthy body composition, don't smoke, and have purposeful social connections, focus on the spiritual, physical, intellectual, emotional, and social, through meditation, through journaling. And you do these things, I think overall, you're going to look a little bit younger, feel a little bit younger. if you get a few wrinkles as you age, so what? that's part of the crown of glory of aging well, right? You'll have a few wrinkles, but if you're getting those wrinkles being healthy, so what?

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 20:42

it's like a badge of honor from aging. Right.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 20:46

I guess.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 20:47

just

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 20:47

I don't know.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 20:48

you experience life. You've acquired a notch on your belt of wisdom, but it's a, it's a wrinkle of your face, just a wrinkle in time. As time moves past us all,

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 21:00

Now, that being said, I don't want the wrinkles that look, you know, they catch water as the rain hits my face and, acts as little gutters to travel that rain down my chin. But, I think we can maintain healthy skin and look younger without having to buy into all of the shortcuts, the hype and the hacks and everything that we see in the marketing scams that are out there.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 21:26

kinda like, uh, your, your, uh, your hair is turning gray. take more copper less zinc, more copper. Copper will help. With your hair not turning gray.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 21:40

did you get that?

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 21:41

there's studies that say

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 21:42

okay,

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 21:43

will help, prevent graying hair. But, I don't know how reliable that is if an individual is transitioning, into their 60s to their 70s. I just feel like your hair's going to be gray, and that's okay.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 22:01

yeah,

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 22:01

personally I'm getting gray in my beard and I love it. I think it's cool. my parents, when they started getting their gray hair, they blamed me and my brother because they're like, yeah, I didn't have any gray hair until you guys, those are stress grays. And I don't have that, excuse because I don't have children. But I'm gonna have kids with grey hair and it's gonna be awesome.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 22:23

it's interesting because my hair got grayer when I had you as a student. So There might be a connection. This is why you don't look at correlative data. Because my hair did get grayer during the four year period that you were a student of mine. So, is that the connection?

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 22:39

I don't

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 22:40

This is why, we teach the listeners and viewers of the Aging Well podcast to have a better understanding. of science and understand that just because something correlates does not mean it is actual factual. That there is not a connection. There is not cause and effect. So, and the same with all these studies. just because, you look at one supplement under one circumstance. It's easy to ignore all the other causal effects that might be going along with why we might be seeing the differences that we're seeing. be a bit more conscientious of the literature and the marketing claims that you're seeing. if you feel comfortable and confident that collagen is beneficial for you and you take it and you see benefits then by all means take it. but don't rush out and buy collagen and, you know, go into debt because you can't, you know, afford to do other things because the high cost of living right now. Don't buy collagen if you don't see a benefit to it. But if you see a benefit it's working for you and you can afford it and you like having collagen in your coffee or whatever, by all means, it's not going to cause you any harm. And I think that's the important thing is like it may or may not cause benefit. See what it does for you. And if it works, it works. If it doesn't, then, you know, do something else to help keep your skin healthy.

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 24:05

Do you think it's also a placebo effect as people put it into their coffee? That they're like, oh, I'm really getting all the benefits, I can really feel it if I don't take it every day. Or

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 24:20

a placebo effect acting there because, you know, it's, it's not a, Neurological kind of thing. It's like, I can't think away my wrinkles, right? I can't see a change in my skin because I think that I'm taking something that's helping my skin. Now, it may be that in taking the collagen to help your skin, you are also doing other things to be more protective of your skin. You know, if you're conscious about that, Your skin and you start taking collagen in order to benefit your skin, you may also very well be doing things like better hydrating, getting more exercise, avoiding excessive sunlight and getting proper sleep and doing all these other things that might also be benefiting your skin. who's to say it's the one thing or the other that is truly benefiting your skin. In the end, if your skin is looking healthier and better, it's a win, right?

corbin-bruton_2_12-14-2024_083810: 25:24

makes sense. Well, that's all the time for us today. We hope that you've enjoyed this deep dive into the world of collagen supplements and have learned a thing or two about what's real and what's hype. If you've been curious about adding collagen to your routine, we hope this episode has helped you make a more informed decision. And as always, if you've enjoyed the show, don't forget to subscribe and share it someone who might find it helpful. Until next time, keep well.

jeff_2_12-14-2024_083809: 25:57

keep aging well.

25:59

Thank you for listening. I hope you benefited from today's podcast and until next time, keep aging well.