Episode 197: Biohacking--Let's Grow Young and Age Well w/ Sanjeev Pathak

In this episode of the Aging Well Podcast, Dr. Jeff Armstrong welcomes Sanjeev Pathak, host of the Let's Grow Young podcast. Sanjeev, an advocate for redefining aging, discusses his journey from experiencing a severe corporate burnout to becoming a life coach focused on longevity and health. The conversation explores key pillars for aging well, the concept of biohacking, and the importance of maintaining a balanced lifestyle. Sanjeev shares his insights on the promises and pitfalls of modern biohacking products and emphasizes the significance of free, simple lifestyle changes for improved health, longevity, and... aging well.

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Transcript

0:05

Welcome to the Aging Well Podcast, I'm your Jeff Armstrong and I'm thrilled to have a special guest, Sanjeev Pathak, host of the Let's Grow Young podcast. Sanj is passionate about redefining aging and exploring how we can reverse the effects of aging and grow younger. In this episode, we dive into his key pillars for aging well and tackle a hot topic in the longevity world, biohacking. Together we'll explore the promises, pitfalls, and possibilities of using cutting edge products and strategies to hack our way to youthfulness and vitality, get ready for a fascinating conversation that challenges conventional views on aging and explores the future of living well and aging well.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 0:43

​SANS welcome to the aging well podcast. Let's begin by having you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to your journey to. Growing young.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 0:52

Well, thanks for having me on the podcast, Jeff. It's a real honor. my journey on going down this path of discovering, longevity and trying to grow young, has been quite a complex one. starting at the top, I'm. chronologically 47 years old. I say chronologically because in this industry compare chronological versus biological. I, I'm not too much into that, but I have done a number of biological tests and of them tells me that I'm apparently 37 biologically. but the technology I'm, I'm unsure with. As you can probably tell by my accent, I live in England. in London, born and bred in the UK. my heritage is Indian there's a reason I mentioned that because I think heritage, has something to do With your dna and gene expressions which can impact aging, I have a wife of almost 20 years Who is a medical doctor? you can imagine our conversations when i'm trying These things which she believes are relatively untested and she's all about relying on medical books But the interesting thing is she's coming around to my way of thinking now Also got two kids and I can't forget my four year old Labrador my journey really, I've been working in the banking and financial services industry, all of my life. a few years ago during COVID, I had what you call a corporate. burnout, um, meltdown and my meltdown was pretty severe. I'd felt it coming along for a number of years. but being raised as quite a stoic, human being, I. Did not mention anything to anyone and I just continued with my life. heading into London Again where I work to go into the city Um, I usually use the underground the tube and that morning when I woke up I knew something was wrong with me and I knew something was about to crack I just put my head down and I just said to myself, I don't know what's going to happen, but something doesn't feel right when it does happen. Just be aware that something's happened. I didn't know what was going to happen. So I was standing at the tube station and I could see the train coming up. And as I was walking to the train. The last recollection I have was looking at the board to confirm where the train was going. Moment after that, I woke up flat on the platform with passengers and medical staff looking over me. the rest was quite a blur. amazingly though, well amazingly or stupidly, probably stupidly, I turned away all medical attention. I refused to go into treatment and an ambulance and I didn't even see my medical doctor afterwards and I didn't mention it to a single soul for over two years because in my mind I knew what happened. I knew it was a culmination of events over the last few years, it led to a meltdown. funnily enough, if my life had been on a normal trajectory, I would have just continued with my life. But this actually woke me up. I got up from the floor, Dusted my clothes off and went into the office in Canary wharf one of the biggest banks in the world I said, you know what not going to do this to me and I started recoding my head immediately so my journey began at that point. and but the process healing and repair is continuous. I started off by self healing. I started listening to podcasts by Jay Shetty and, and, and, some other podcasts hosts all around self healing. I began to learn strategies to try and cope and fix myself. they worked, during that journey, I became qualified with, the Jay Shetty certification school to become, fully qualified life coach myself, my niche is really around longevity, and health for people aged 35 to 40 plus, which is why I then, it's sorry, in my journey of trying to find out what are the things that help with aging, I got really tired and fed up of listening to people who seem to be oversponsored and over influential based upon whether they're sponsored by this company or that company. I get the need for sponsorship, but some people were just scaremongering about it and then pitching their own products. So in order to decipher the science, I took on a course of study for, I think it was about four months with Harvard Medical School. I learned about the science of lifestyle medicine. off the back of that, I brought together my framework on aging. that was really the point where I thought, right, I'm in grasp of what I need to do. that's the point where I started to try and turn things around in my life.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 5:20

You have a really fascinating story. And I think it's sad that so many people. on that pathway just think that's normal. They'd go to their medical treatment. get their pills from their doctor and just think this is part of the aging process. This is the cost I pay to, have a nice job in finance. it's just the stress of doing business and I'm just going to keep plodding along. very rarely do we recognize that, There's so much that we can do in our own lifestyle that can fix these things. and I love the title of your podcast, let's grow young. And I kind of, you know, parallels what we're trying to do here. In terms of aging well, it's about being proactive and not reactive and trying to avoid the lifestyle things that are making us age a lot faster. how do you define aging? Well,

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 6:10

How do I define aging? Well, to me first and foremost My framework and i've got a scribble of my framework here.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 6:17

okay.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 6:18

I just met a client just now so your question is very timely. to me aging well is For me personally, I'm quite sporty. I play a lot of sports and, I play a lot of soccer and do a lot of endurance events I want to always be able to compete I don't care how old you are if you're half my age, I want to push you all the way and try and beat you. I want the ability to do things I used to do 20 years ago. and, and if I can do that, means I'm beginning to age quite well, but how do I do that? What I learned with my breakdown was that maybe I was focusing too much on the physical side of things. Maybe I was focusing too much on being able to run an extra mile in and so on and so forth, but I never actually went into my head. the first point for me was to look at where I'm expending my energy. As you age, you have to be really careful how you expend your energy. you have kids, you have mortgages, you have X, Y, and Z. If you're constantly wasting energy on things where, which, which are a drain, it doesn't matter what you do externally, that was ultimately going to put you down. So, So for me, I went about a process in aging, well, how I define aging well is having a clarity of mindset, starting with that, it's like a car, you have to maintain the elements that support that, you have to know your weak points, you have to regularly monitor them, whether it's through, you know, epigenetic clocks, whether it's through blood markers, you have to hone in on the things that tilt the balance on those things one way or the other bring that all together. So, so for me, well is if you are looking after the key pillars correctly, around your mind, your, your lifestyle, lifestyle being exercise, nutrition, sleep, toxic substances, and relationships. So, for me, if you've got all that together, the output will be energy and clarity when you wake up. and for me, that is what aging well is.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 8:14

And so kind of getting bullet points, what are your key pillars to aging?

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 8:18

So my key pillars my framework there's a number of boxes and pillars and steps to it. the first step is, gaining an understanding of where you are at the moment. Right. And actually asking yourself, am I where I want to be? And I'm not talking necessarily financially. Am I mentally and emotionally in homeostasis? Am I in a place where I feel good, where I feel, you know, aligned? In order to do that, you have to complete an audit of your life and you have to work out where am I compared to where I need to be. And then when it comes to the key pillars. It is all around lifestyle medicine. The key pillars to me are the ones I mentioned earlier, nutrition, exercise, sleep, the community you're with, access to toxins, substances, stress resilience. once you've kind of worked out. Where you stand within all those pillars, can start to form a blueprint of which of the pillars you need to focus on the most and at what time. If you address those pillars correctly, of one pillar on another pillar will be holistic. And so if you don't sleep well, you're unlikely to exercise well. And you're unlikely to eat well, but if you do sleep well, you're going to well, you're going to eat. Well, you're going to be full of energy So in that instance, I had a problem with my sleep. So I addressed my sleep problems and that fixed everything else for me with my learnings what i've also learned is that you can address the pillars But having spent so much time in my corporate life in banking, I've learned that people then kill themselves with goal setting. And so you'll say, right in six months time, I want to achieve X. They achieve X, but when they get there, they're a bit disappointed at the feeling of achieving X, because it wasn't what they expected. Or, they've not achieved X, and they kill themselves over it? So for me, another key pillar, or key step, to stop setting goals. But to set a direction, set a direction to say, right, I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be more present for my children. I'm going to be more active. I want to be more healthy. Whether it takes you three months or six months doesn't really matter because What I've learned is you have to ingrain the habits and behaviors into your everyday life and the output will look after itself and before you know it, you've achieved those outputs in autopilot and you achieve a higher baseline. So for me, it's more than just a single pillar. It's this entire framework, but within that framework, there's certain pillars that you have to target more than others at a certain time.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 10:55

I like that answer because we tend to see people numerize things or put bullet points to it and just leave it at that. when we're talking about aging well and growing young, it's all about pulling all of these things together. And so we often talk, you know, our pillars, we started with five. we now have added a sixth one. So it's exercise in. Physical activity, diet, sleep hygiene, maintain a healthy body composition, don't smoke. we added, because those five areas from the physical standpoint, I teach pathophysiology and exercise, and I've found that,

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 11:30

sounds

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 11:31

I'm not, anywhere near a physician. I don't teach quite to that full physician level, but I want my exercise science students to understand that what we are talking about is lifestyle and how we can prevent disease by simply living the right lifestyle. And so we have those five pillars that really much more on the physical side, but then we've since added as a sixth purposeful and we've added purposeful in their social connections. You know, so that you're having,

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 12:00

we've got the same

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 12:01

yeah, it's very much the same. And then we also tied into what one of my, friends and a regular listener refers to as spies, the spiritual, physical, intellectual, emotional, and social, and all of that stuff works together. And so I refer to it as well centered fitness. And, you know, when you talk about goals, it's not about specific. Again, bullet point goals. It's about going toward this asthma tope of wellness and aging well and youthfulness, longevity and, you know, lifespan, health span, all those kind of things. And so I really kind of appreciate that answer. from listening to your podcast and hearing you now I feel like we both sit in this longevity circle among a lot of very high profile. And you kind of alluded to this earlier, these very high profile doctors and so called experts who promote their list of treatments for disease And I'm not sure that I like the idea of referring to disease, aging is a disease. yeah, it's associated with disease, but it is a process of life and it's chronological and it's biological and it's things that we can control. But, and we'll kind of get to your thoughts on biohacking in a moment, but first, what are your thoughts on this idea of aging as a disease?

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 13:15

So I'm equally like you. I don't like that connotation. I don't think aging is a disease. I think aging is an inevitable outcome. We're going to age full stop. Right? Anyone who says they're gonna not age chronologically. Age as a disease, I don't think it's a disease, but the output, the manifestation of not looking after, the processes that lead to aging can lead to a disease or an illness. And whether things like Alzheimer's are a disease or an illness, let the medics decide. But, but, but for me, is a disease. Firstly, an individual breakdown of a number of processes that can be methylation. It can be cell repair, cell dysfunctioning. It can be your intake of oxygen. It can be many things, then in aggregation, the, the breakdown of vital processes within your body is what I call Now, the extent to which those processes break down are different for each individual that can be a combination of genetics, but most more so my perspective, epigenetics, the, the things in your environment and that stuff is in your control. So you might be surprised to hear me say that, look, it's inevitable. You know, there's going to be some newspaper article in the UK focusing on me very soon and it's going to say this guy has aged backwards by 10 years. But in fact, my feedback to the newspaper was, I don't really care because I am 47. I'm not 37. What I care about is the pace at which I'm aging. And so if, in aggregation, what you're saying is, blood markers and the algorithms have gone into my body, they've looked at all the processes around methylation, DNA repair, NAD levels, and they've come out and said, actually, this guy's levels are at the stage which is typically of a healthy 37 year old, then I can handle that. That says my pace of aging is good. But on the contrary, if you don't look after yourself and you don't look after some of these key processes of aging, the outcomes may be a disease. So aging itself is not a disease. but I believe the outcomes can be a disease and a severe illness.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 15:26

And you mentioned, these people who think they will not age. and I know there's a lot of high profile people that we could easily start dropping names, but that really brings us to this idea of bio hacking. and I believe we share a certain level, I think a pretty high level of skepticism to this bio hacking. What are your thoughts on the possibility of some product or products being able to hack our way to youthfulness and longevity?

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 15:52

So first and foremost, I think I've had Instagram spats with very high profile, biohackers. and first and foremost, I should say these guys have been responsible for bringing biohacking to the front people's minds. So I give credit to them for doing that. But in itself, what does it mean? It means hacking your biology. That's what it means. for me, there is a place for these products, but that secondary or tertiary, everyone's talking about the blue zones and this, that and the other. Um, the fact is if you look at the healthier nations in the world, the healthier countries in the world and the populations, the things that have helped them grow young are things that are free. And in my ebook, I encourage people to do the things that are free. If you're not doing them, you can go on to any IV drip you want. You can take red light therapy or hyperbaric chambers that you want. But if you're putting shit into your body like a hamburger every day, If you've got no access to the sun, if you're using your phone 24 and you're drinking wine every single day, I drink, but it's in control, I don't drink it too much, there's no point. So, the first step of biohacking is assess the things that are free to you. Access to nature, the type of foods you eat, access to sunlight, the people in your life, etc, etc. Do that first. Focus on that hydration, all those things first, you will see a massive gain in the way you feel in your blood markers and ultimately your longevity. Now, what, what I found is that once you've achieved mental clarity, and once you've achieved these three things in life, Your baseline is going to improve, but then how do I constantly improve my baseline? I spent some time with some highly successful teams and one of them is a McLaren, Formula One, company and their ethos is to improve by 1 percent every 15 minutes. the way in which they do that is by addressing the basics first, but then looking for continuous changes in the corporate world. We have continuous improvement and you can bring that to your personal life. So I then went on a journey to understand about the biohacking supplements, which ones work and which ones don't, which ones work for me, which ones don't. I tested everything. I do think there are things out there that do work. and are part of my daily routine. But would I call them complex, scientific, molecular substances? all of them, no. And so, um, if we go to the kind of story of food and vitamins, the most important to me are my trace vitamins and minerals. And so, I start off the day sure that I take my vitamin D3, my vitamin K2, omega 3s, and even my B. Electrolytes as well and even even turmeric. So this sort of stuff. I don't view as biohacking is these are things which in eastern medicine as someone from an indian origin stuff like turmeric has been in our food every day So someone said to me wow sanji's biohacking with turmeric I'm not. I'm, I'm not biohacking with vitamin D. These are trace minerals, trace minerals. You need them for energy, metabolism, heart health. So I start off with that. And you're not going to convince me, Oh, he's spending lots of money on this stuff because I'm not. Electrolytes, really important as well. Now, said all of this, There are things out there, which I think have improved my cellular health as well. There's a lot of talk about NAD, about NR around NMN and around transer. I've tested them all, to be honest, I've thrown most of them out the window. the science didn't add up. The, the, the peer backed research wasn't there. The placebo testing wasn't there, the substance of all of them, which is probably more out there than anything I take, is NAD. So I use a product and it helps me to produce energy. It helps with DNA health, cellular health, I believe it helps to activate certain pathways within my body. I don't know specifically if it does but in this cocktail of stuff i've tried Once I removed it. I did start to feel different, but the product I take is I've read all the research papers. So it seems to add up. So nad is something I take as well Then top of that there's really You know other than omega 3 vitamin d2 vitamin d3 fish oils such as omega 3 electrolytes and nad I don't really take much else. the only other changes I've introduced is I was drinking my coffee. I only drink mushroom coffee now. it's making little hacks like that. It's not expensive, but I drink stuff like mushroom coffee, green tea. in a very long winded way, I think what I'm trying to say is start off with the real basics of biohacking, which are free. Once you start feeling good, you can start layering in trace minerals, some trace vitamins. Do your research around what other supplementation is out there. See which ones could work for you and can't, but they must be science based. That's level two. Running alongside that, I do my almost daily cold plunges and saunas, which really work for me. when my body is feeling the pain of the extreme exercise I put myself through, I do my occasional red light therapy and cryo chamber treatment, those things are on the more expensive side those things are almost like a luxury treating myself, but they're not part of my everyday habit you're picking up that my everyday habits are actually quite cheap and reasonable. They're not that expensive

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 21:19

First of all, I don't like the word hack because to me, hack is a shortcut, and there are no hacks are no shortcuts. we can't shortcut our way to healthy biology. a lot of these products out there. And even in the science, you know, the science can very much focusing on one cellular function. activity. But a lot of these scientists forget that the body is more than just one singular cellular pathway. There's multiple different pathways that are engaging with one another. And our lifestyle is going to impact those pathways in a variety of different ways. And I just, I have a hard time with almost everything. Every supplement and even NAD, I have a hard time understanding how that can possibly get through the system down to the mitochondria and the cell where it's going to be functional. we can make our own and our body is very good at making our own N. A. D. And other products like that. It's what's going on in our lifestyle that's disrupting that. it goes back to physical activity, exercise, diet, sleep. It's our body composition is going to impact these things as well as it's going to impact our body composition and, you know, smoking and just healthy lifestyle is a much cheaper and easier way. the biohacking industry, I think is forgetting the people that most need these health driven, pathways, the poor can't afford this stuff that, multi billion dollar, individuals can create cocktails for themselves to, drink. Generate youthfulness. It's it's what what's the stuff that people can do Across the population that's going to increase their lifestyle their health health span and all those types of things.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 23:06

Yeah, that's something I really hate about the biohacking industry if i'm honest and hate is a word I don't use often, but the world has been going through a cost of living crisis There are people i've just come back from america right the level of homelessness in some cities really shocked me There are people who around the world who can't afford food They can't afford to drive the car because the price of gas is so expensive let alone have a holiday Yet we get influencers coming on saying You Right. The toothpaste you use is bad for you. the dishwasher tablets you use are bad for you. the cream you put on your skin is bad for you. I get what they're saying. I get it. I really do. the scaremongering say, right, go for this toothpaste because it's made out of X, Y, and Z. But it costs triple the price. That's a part I'm not comfortable with. I think these people should be focusing a lot more on teaching people that before you go down to these products, wake up, what is your sleep hygiene routine? What do you do when you wake up? Where is your mobile phone? What are the sounds you hear? what do you drink when you wake up? Go buy some apple cider vinegar. substitute your coffee for green tea or mushroom coffee. This is the stuff that I want influencers doing Then educate them about other things, you know, we we can't control everything in our environment.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 24:19

Yeah, I recently had beyond patel on To talk about glutathione and I really appreciated his approach that you know

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 24:27

I'll be really interested to know what you say about this because i've been researching that over the past week and whether I should take it or not

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 25:01

I you know after talking I mean I was You I'm always a bit suspect when I have somebody on that I think might just be wanting to promote their product. I like promoting the ideas and the research that's out there and, giving people the tools to be able to evaluate it after talking with him and kind of understanding his perspective, I'm in the process of kind of reading his book right now. he did send me some products I'm trying to spray right now and I do notice some benefit, what I appreciated about the conversation with him is that It was, you got to fix the diet first, you know, and that the body makes its own glutathione where taking glutathione can benefit you if you are deficient, maybe you are genetically not making enough of it, or lifestyle is having an impact on how much you're using. And so you're just not keeping up with the production. And so the, the sprays. And he does a more transdermal approach to administration, which I think does make a lot more sense than an oral and the literature is just not there for oral. I am kind of interested in trying out, and I have my son, he does MMA. And so to protect his brain a little bit, I'm having, you know, can't hurt to be taken some, glycine NAC, but he's taken a product that is supposed to absorb a lot more effectively in, in the literature shows that it does. like it's like plus E is it ER or something like that? I can't remember the product name exactly. he's not noticing anything dramatic, but he shouldn't because he's young and healthy. I think it can be one of those things that may have some benefit it's expensive. the majority of people are not going to be able to afford the sprays, especially if you're doing it on a monthly basis, my recommendation would be, if people can't afford it, do an initial run of it, see how it helps your body and then do the things to maintain your glutathione. by changing lifestyle, not drinking as much, trying to manage your stress, get your sleep in order, but use it to kind of top off the tank. It's kind of like, you know, you fill up your car. I don't put premium gasoline in my car all the time, but on occasion, if the price is right, I'll put a, higher octane in there to give the engine a boost in function, it's not something I have to do all the time and I can't afford to do all the time. I think there's some promise with it. but it's not something that is absolutely necessary. Can't have some short term and probably in another two to three weeks might know a little bit better how I really feel about the product, but it seems to be helping me now I'm 61 and I know you've had, Hannah went on, your podcast.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 27:41

Yeah.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 27:42

been on, we're actually a true diagnostic. Affiliate and so I've done the testing I'm having her on here in a few more weeks to talk about their upgrade to the symphony age, which does the 11 organ epigenetics testing and

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 27:57

Hannah was kind enough to send me a kit while I was in the States.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 28:00

and it's It's very interesting my biological age. I'm a good I think about six years younger than my chronological age But 11 organs I was really surprised that i'm At age for inflammation and metabolism, which kind of makes some sense because I have a standstill in terms of losing any kind of body fat. I can cut calories. It's not gonna help. I increased my caloric expenditure. It's not helping.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 28:27

But,

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 28:27

Musculoskeletal was 65.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 28:29

at least over webcam, you seem like a guy who, who works out his muscles, a fair bit. And so whole inflammation marker is something which I score poorly on as well on some epigenetic kits. the reason is, if you work out hard, and I do a lot of high rocks type of races where. running for many, many kilometers and pushing 200 kg weights. the muscles do get overstrained. those markers are going to come out slightly more stressed and inflamed. if someone took that form of competitiveness and they took that rigor of exercise out of me, cool, I may save a few years on my biological mentally, the release of the Endocrines and and so on and so forth the mental edge I get from doing that type of exercise Justifies it for me the inflammation marker Due to exercise and excessive exercise is one that pulls a lot of people down. I think

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 29:21

And it was interesting to me too that my musculoskeletal was actually older because I know I can outlift the majority of people that are 61 years of age. I can outlift my wrestlers that I coach in strength and conditioning, My curiosity there is, well, maybe, it's the type of the testing and I can't remember how I was training relative to when I took the test. it may very well be that I train every day or six days a week. So very likely my body was reflecting something that might make it look like I'm older, but in reality, my musculoskeletal age is probably a little bit younger than most.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 29:59

It's a really interesting topic and apologies if we're kind of

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 30:02

I like digression.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 30:03

But the whole world of, biological clocks to me is a minefield. the true diagnostic kit is very good. I think the, the Harvard based research that's been done, they publish their algorithm and you can review the algorithm. But there's a lot of companies who will not publish the algorithm. They will not actually talk you through the science of the product, how it's been researched, how it's been formulated, and yet they'll present you with a bunch of blood markers. indicate X, Y, and Z. To me, what I've learned in my journey is that less interested in my biological age anymore. I think the key things are, what are the things that are going to kill me? You know, my blood pressure. my level of visceral fat, cholesterol levels, my muscle mass. I don't need a biological testing kit to show me that. most importantly, my blood sugar levels, my glycemic index, all that sort of stuff. but most importantly, how do I feel on a day to day basis? How do I feel? for me, I know internally. When, when things are going wrong, when things are going up and touch wood, I've been feeling great. not gonna let a biological clock Where the markers have not been shared, where the testing has not been shared, where the algorithm has not been published drive my approach to life What should be driving it? pillars that I mentioned before. the the output from a biological clock can be very inaccurate. Now having said that I've had biological clocks which have told me I'm aging backwards very quickly, but I don't really care Because I wake up I woke up today at 5am. It was supposed to be a rest day from the gym, but I was feeling so good I got up at 5am and still went to the gym on the rest day. You know, I feel great. I don't want to overanalyze the data, but I think that's what I'm trying to say.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 31:48

Yeah. And I agree with you there. I think it's a good tool to monitor some of the progress. the efficacy of some of the things that you might be doing to see if they are actually working. But the reality is, are you feeling better? Are you moving better? Are you living better? And in the long run, that's going to Direct, your rate of aging.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 32:09

you think a 120 year old person in Japan was using biological clocks? Or, someone in Sardinia who's walking up the hill pushing a goat? they were eating tomatoes, they were eating mackerel for breakfast in good quality oil. they were having a glass of wine with their friends, over food. I know it sounds very romantic. It's really difficult deciphering the good, the bad and the ugly in this world. so I think, with Hannah, she's fantastic. and her product is fantastic, but, I'm just trying to pitch the message to people to say a biological kit, Zoe monitor, a, a whoop device. A aura ring. It's stator. It's not gonna fix your lifestyle. Your lifestyle to fix is in your hands. No device is gonna stop your hand from picking up the wrong food or take the right food. No device is gonna drag you to the gym. No device is gonna get rid of those assholes in your life and replace'em with good people. That's, that's here. That device is here in your head. That's your mind.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 33:11

Yeah. And I think the best biological clock is just to be around people, your own age and notice the differences. And I always tell my students that my goal in life is to go back here in the States. we have high school reunions on a regular basis. So it's supposed to be every five years we go back and you kind of interact with your old classmates and see how everybody's doing. But I tell my students that my goal is to, always be in relatively better shape than everybody else is. So as they're declining with age is, is, and credit to my class, many of them are doing very well and not aging poorly. But you know, if you see people aging at the normal kind of the considered air air quote for those that are listening, or to the audio, is they are declining. What we consider relatively normally with aging. If you're aging well, you should be separating yourself from them as time goes on. You know, so the older we get, the more separation we're seeing in terms of our musculoskeletal strength, cardiovascular health, skin health, all those types of things.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 34:15

It's a really difficult one. This one is culturally. I said to myself quietly the other day, I can't believe what's happening to these people who are the same age. And if you're sitting with them and you kind of said, oh, yeah, I went for a 10 K run today, or I bench pressed a hundred kg, or I played a game of football. Oh yeah. I had mackerel for breakfast. And I said this to someone last night, I said, I had mackerel, rice and, Miso soup for breakfast. that's what Japanese are. And when I said it, I thought, oh, why the heck did you just say that? Because these people now think I'm this arrogant idiot who's just lecturing about young. But the point is, has so become ingrained into my daily life, per my framework, I don't even think about it. And so when I see people at a similar age, to walk, unable to play football with their children. I just think, wow, what a mess we've gotten ourselves into. What a mess we've gotten ourselves into in this world. if we can find a way to influence those closest to us to do what we're doing, that would be amazing. But it's really hard because within that people get offended that we're trying to lecture and we're trying to, and, and, and they take away from that, that we're implying that they're not living their best selves. It's really difficult being in circles of people who are the same age.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 35:27

hopefully they're seeing the examples. And you know, as long as we don't push in people's face in it. And I do think living it, okay. Is a better example and a better teacher than what we're seeing in terms of promoting a lot of these hacks and things for aging, because a lot of hacks are basically saying you're screwing yourself up. You need to be doing this to fix all the mistakes that you've made in your life rather than let's change in baby steps. The things that you can change and progressively get you closer and closer to aging more effectively and aging well. So you've kind of already addressed this, but what meter do you use to gauge the efficacy of longevity practices?

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 36:09

The meter I use is my performance levels in the gym or in the running track or my energy levels. When I wake up, my meter is my general level of being present with people when they're talking to me, to be honest. But in terms of the science, I've used everything. I've used so many meters, true diagnostics. Glycan age, some by VM and lots of other kits. they all vary with their degree of efficacy, is what I believe. I'm not gonna go as far as saying the ones which I don't believe are very good. I've asked the questions of them and they've not replied to me or they've shut me down. the nature of my podcast is such that the guests who appear on my podcast are the ones who are actually confident that they'll stand up to scientific scrutiny. And so the ones that are on my podcast are probably the ones that are better in this market. so yeah, I've used a whole host of them. but as I said before, I'm not obsessed by them.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 37:08

Find yourself getting obsessed with any data. you mentioned the aura ring and all those.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 37:13

so I monitor my data on maybe It depends. so every week I will stand on a scale and that scale will give me my weight It will give me my body fat. It will give me my heart rate vo2 So vo2 resting heart rate my weight and percentage of muscle mass things I monitor weekly blood biomarkers, I think we're living in a world where people think you have to go off and get things from private companies to send you devices. You prick your finger, put it in the post, put the blood in the post, send it off to a lab. But in the United Kingdom, if you're working with a good NHS or National Health Authority, you can ask them for a blood test and you can say, can you include blood sugar levels on it? I get that stuff done quite regularly. my level of monitoring, is not as high as people would think. But if you think about my framework, my framework is all about daily consistent habits. And I, I, I, I'm not concerned about the, the, the key metrics, cause I know my daily habits are good. The things that bother me are the stuff that can have a genetic impact, that can impact me genetically, such as cholesterol. People from a South Asian background do tend to have a high cholesterol level. So I keep an eye on that. But generally, I'm not obsessive. do not wear a sleep ring. I refuse to do that. So, um, for me, sleep was a huge issue. I had many years over a decade of very poor sleep and there are psychological reasons why that was the case. there's images of me going to specialist sleep centers where I was selected out of a national population as a sample to trust test solutions They were unable to fix me. It was session one of Let's Grow Young with Lisa Butcher on my podcast. fixed my sleep problem in one session, but she did it through Alternative therapies. So I will not wear any device that measures my sleep not saying people shouldn't but i'm just the type of personality who would probably go to bed thinking I wonder what my data is going to look like in the morning and i'll probably lose sleep over that and so so so so so for me, data At the right points is good, but on a daily hundred percent basis I'm not sure. I don't want a device telling me that my blood sugars have just come up because i've eaten Something which happens to have one grape in it. no that for me just goes too far

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 39:41

I do wear a Garmin watch to kind of track sleep a bit in my, what they call the body battery, just that, you know, the, Heart rate variability and most of that is just I'm trying to kind of at my age, regulate my cortisol levels a little bit more effectively, see how my habits are affecting my, my sleep patterns because my sleep, I can think I've slept pretty well and my scores are not going to be very good. And other times, I think I didn't sleep very well and my scores could be a little bit better. I'm an academic. So. Data is, one of the things I go by the most. And so I do find it helpful, but I think you're right that it's what's going to work for the individual. if it's going to disrupt your efforts to age well, then it's not something you should be bothering with. If it's something that can facilitate better action in terms of moving forward. then by all means do it if you can afford it. But it's not the most important thing. The most important thing is that we are living the lifestyle that is going to help us to age well.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 40:44

I agree. So now if I use an example on sleep if I wear a sleep monitor the sleep monitor will measure my phases of sleep including deep sleep and REM sleep to me when I go into REM sleep that is the Occasions when start dreaming and I wake up thinking I'm in a real dream. and that happened last night. I was in such a, I was beyond deep sleep. I was in REM sleep, but when I hit REM sleep, I actually wake up a little bit confused because I think. Oh, okay. I was dreaming. It wasn't real. and I think that REM sleep actually goes too far. my brain is going into this mode where I'm almost in this cognitive situation, which, which is because of the level of sleep I'm in. I get, I feel better rested when I've had a prolonged period of deep sleep as opposed to REM sleep. And, and, and, and a, a data monitor would probably tell me I'm not getting enough REM sleep. It's different for everyone but for me when I go into REM sleep Someone's going to listen to this and say sam just talking rubbish But when I specifically go into REM sleep, I find that I get into such a level of dream It doesn't feel like i'm sleeping. It actually feels like i'm living it whereas the deep sleep is where I wake up really fresh and ready

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 42:02

Yeah. And either way, I think, it's important to emphasize good quality sleep and doing the things that are giving us good sleep hygiene, to be able to get the best sleep we can because more and more, the people that I've had on with brain health, sleep is one of the biggest factors if you're not getting good sleep, you're messing up your, your brain, you're increasing your risk of Alzheimer's and variety of other neurological cognitive disorders. So,

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 42:29

It's number one. My sleep hygiene is pretty good now. It never used to be, but since I've improved my sleep hygiene, everything else is falling into place.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 42:38

so you have a bedtime.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 42:39

I try to get in by 10pm, but I try and keep off my phone at least one hour before. I keep my phone away from the bedside. I, Try not to watch TV up to that time. some reading. I like a cool temperature in my room, so I try and keep a window open with some white noise in the background. Dust off the bed, keep as many lights out as possible. Try not to eat after 7 p. m. if I do eat, then try to avoid spicy food or carbohydrate loaded food, and actually, um, sleeping and keeping my eyes closed. That sounds really stupid, right? Really simple. But I think I did get into a habit where I couldn't sleep and I just used to open my eyes. Well, go on to retool, keep your eyes closed and, not overthink, then waking up, keeping away from the phone, down, seeing the dog after you've done your morning routine. I think that's a good, dopamine thing. Go see your dog. Open the door to the garden, in the garden, a mushroom coffee, see the birds flying by. routine for me works perfectly.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 43:41

Yeah, I think that's something we don't talk about a lot we talk about a nighttime routine for going to sleep and triggering the circadian rhythms, but we don't really talk about a morning routine and how that can benefit us in the start of the day. So I think routine is very important. my routine is probably a little bit different. one of the first things is to see the dogs. we have a cat now that will crawl on top of me in the morning because he knows that I'm the one that's going to be feeding them. So he'll be trying to wake me up to get him to. Need to come and go feed'em. having a good routine in the morning is something we need to do an episode on in this podcast.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 44:16

Yeah.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 44:16

So we ask this question of everybody that comes on the podcast, and I'm gonna ask you, we've already been kind of discussing it somewhat, but in addition to some of the other things that we've talked about, what else are you doing personally to age well?

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 44:28

So we've talked about a lot of things. it's not anything that's hugely out there. we've talked about the pillars of nutrition, food, et cetera, et cetera. Let me talk about something different. I've learned to say no, right? So just before my meltdown, I was the first one to a party. the first one at the bar. the first one to dance and stuff. I'm not, I'm not saying I'm against all that now, but people have started commenting that, why don't we see Sanjay anymore? Why don't we actually see him at parties? Dinner parties and functions. It's because I can't be asked. I can't be bothered I'm probably going to lose a lot of friends when they hear this. It's because I value my Productivity and my energy levels a lot and And in order to age well, it includes toxic substances Right. So if you go to a party You may not drink, but you may have a Coca Cola. It's got sugar in it. You may have some hors d'oeuvres, which are full of sugar and fat, and you break your routine. so I've learned to say no to big social functions, where I'm just meeting people who are transactional in my life. they're very nice people, but they're not core to me. But what happens as a result of that you get into bad habits It affects your next day the next day the next day and you've gone backwards Now just to counter that what I do do is that the people who I am very close to I will occasionally meet them and i'll say Yeah, let's meet for a drink, but I won't meet just in a pub a drink for the sake of it. What I will say is that look or three times a year. Let's do something. That's an experience So an example is I ran with the bulls in spain, you know the bull running

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 46:12

that's.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 46:12

My friends and I hadn't seen each other for a long time and two of them were brave enough to Come and do it with me in the context of something productive, sitting in the garden and cooking, going to a sporting event, which you prepare for, for six months. And as a reward you have a drink and some junk food I'm fine with that the one thing that i've been really good at recently is just saying no to transactional Social events I prefer to sit at home Stroking my dog watching a movie eating some good food and maybe even half a glass of wine.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 46:44

Good aging well advice.

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 46:46

Yeah,

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 46:47

Was there anything that we have failed to talk about in this conversation?

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 46:51

No, I think it's been a great conversation What i'm really loving about let's grow young at the moment is that? I started this thing just as an experiment and I'm only 12 or 13 episodes in the connections I'm beginning to make globally with people who, who, are into the same stuff as me, is breaking boundaries and breaking cultures. And I have a vision that one day I will connect with all of you people across the pond and everywhere else. we're going to set up our own little forum where we're calling in people, getting them into rooms, Getting our selected podcast guests there and giving advice and support to people on how to grow young, This is what I love about what we're doing.

jeff_1_09-12-2024_050621: 47:32

Thank you for sharing your time and your story with us today. let's keep growing young and aging. Well,

squadcaster-ag51_1_09-12-2024_130622: 47:37

Thank you. Jeff

47:39

Thank you for listening. I hope you benefited from today's podcast. Until next time, keep aging well.