Episode 186: Living an (Extra)ordinary Third Act w/ Wayne Lehrer

In this episode of the Aging Well Podcast, Dr. Armstrong is joined by Wayne Lehrer, an accomplished individual with a diverse and inspiring background. Wayne shares his journey and discusses his two books: The Art of Conscious Aging: An Operating Manual for an Extraordinary Third Act and The Prodigy Within: The Quest to Discover Your Life's Purpose for Late-Bloomers and Other Seekers. Learn about the concept of an "extraordinary third act," discover practical steps to embrace aging positively, and hear inspiring stories of those who have found fulfillment later in life. Wayne also emphasizes the importance of community and relationships in conscious aging. Don't miss this engaging conversation filled with wisdom and practical advice for… aging well.

Learn more about Wayne Lehrer and his books at https://www.waynelehrer.com/

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Transcript

0:04

Welcome to the Aging Well Podcast. My guest is Dwayne Lehrer, an accomplished individual with a diverse and inspiring background. Dwayne shares his journey and discusses his two books, The Art of Conscious Aging, an operation manual for an extraordinary third act, and A Prodigy Within, the quest to discover your life's purpose for late bloomers and other seekers. You will learn about the concept of an extraordinary third act, discover practical steps to embrace it. Aging positively and hear inspiring stories of those who have found fulfillment later in life. Wayne also emphasizes the importance of community and relationships and conscious aging. Join us for this engaging conversation filled with wisdom and practical advice for aging well.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 0:47

Wayne, welcome to the Aging Well podcast. Let's start by having you tell our listeners and viewers a little bit about yourself.

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 0:56

Hey, Jeff, thanks for having me on, well, let's see, 73 years Young, got an itch a couple of years ago at the request of a number of friends. To write a book. I really started thinking about this whole process of aging after a lifetime of doing a lot of different kinds of things. and also after a lifetime of having been really focused on my health and my wellbeing on, on having a spiritual life on many of the things that, that I realized I'd sort of been preparing for this moment, my entire life I know a lot of people haven't, a lot of people did the straight route of, married work, family, build and stuff. I haven't lived that kind of life I started questioning people and looking at my own process. And a lot of that had to do with the fact that I sort of hit this wall at my early sixties of feeling a sort of low grade depression. and behind, feelings about what was happening in my life and having reached the end of, a professional endeavor I'd been involved in. I went to a therapist and the therapist wanted to. Work with me on why I was depressed. after a few months I realized that depression wasn't really my issue. my issue was that I hadn't successfully been able to transition from one stage of life to the next. And, you know, it sounds kind of simplistic, depression was the by product of having gotten stuck in this in between world. I think that's a very common thing that's happening to a lot of us. our fifties, mid sixties, where all of the ways in which we've measured ourself in the past, stop being adequate or stop being appropriate. the kids have moved out. We're no longer actively parenting. We've been downsized out of work retired or our jobs have changed. so we're not getting the validation we need we may be on a fixed income or not earning at the same rate. So we're not earners and we're not acquiring and accumulating things at the same rate. So a lot of the ways we validated ourself are no longer appropriate. And, that's, you know, when you've judged yourself by those outside criteria your whole life, it's not unheard of that you'd feel depressed. So that's what brought me here facing that and looking for a way to get myself through it. And all my friends that I was seeing going through the same thing and also to sort of educate my therapist cause he didn't have a clue and he was a gerontological psychologist and it was above his pay grade.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 3:37

Well, you have done a lot in your 73 years. Let's see, I'm going to have to read through this because it's such a long list. You've pioneered the growing of wheatgrass and spirulina, if I'm pronouncing that correctly. You study and practice, oriental medicine. You have fasted multiple times for up to 40 days. You've practiced silence for five months. You've designed theme parks and world fairs. You've produced and directed 3d IMAX movies. You are a master yoga, a master of yoga and meditation teacher, and currently teach it at the USC school of gerontology. What haven't you done that is on your bucket list?

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 4:20

I just went skydiving. it wasn't really on my bucket list, but a bunch of my 40 year old friends said, Hey, we're going. I thought, okay, I'll do that. glad I did. I'll never do it again. Well, I guess, on my bucket list for now is sharing what I've learned here. I think we're at a critical impasse all of those things I've done, were different stages. They all came from the same place inside of me, which is, I'm a curious artist whether painting, sculpting, teaching. Designing it was always out of this curiosity and I'd get an itch to do something that's kind of what drove me to this place So I guess my interest now is in finding a way to help people that are aging to find a meaningful third act. I think it's a much more complex issue than it appears to be on the surface. it's not just, retiring and coming up with a daily plan of what you're going to do. you've really got to look at your value system. you gotta create an entirely new value system. I've written a book, the art of conscious aging. it's subtitled, An Operating Manual for Living in Extraordinary Third Act. I think we need an operating manual because we need to measure what it is and how we judge ourself completely differently. so, yeah, so my bucket list is to find a way to get it out there. podcasts is one way to share the message in a very simple way. I also think that, I'd like to do large scale podcasts. I was part of an earlier endeavor called Est and helped co manage the first Est training in India in the 70s. I got to see what having three, four or 500 people in a room at the same time, processing something and supporting each other. being honest about their feelings how powerful and transformative it was. between that and coaching people one on one to make this transition and just to have people read the book. it's pretty simple once you start being willing to embrace it.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 6:16

when we talk about bucket lists, I think sometimes people can. bucket list in retirement and their third act and not really be purposeful with him. simply a list and a bunch of boxes to check off But purpose is a really important topic here on the aging well podcast. It seems to be coming up more and more in the different interviews I've been doing. in addition to your book, The Art of Conscious Aging, you also wrote another book, The Prodigy Within, the quest to discover your life's purpose for late bloomers and other seekers. Can you tell us a little bit more about those two books and what inspired you to write them? Other than people edging you along to write these books.

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 6:58

Well, my other book, The Prodigy Within, the quest to discover your life's purpose for late bloomers and other seekers, the idea behind it was that when I wrote it, I was in my mid 40s, maybe 50 I'm a big fan of mythology and a big fan of King Arthur and the quest for the Holy Grail, in it, Parsifal, known as the Fool, was sent out to find the Grail, called the Cup of Destiny. And if you drank of the Cup of Destiny, you'd receive everlasting life. but the Cup of Destiny is really, believe that what the metaphor was, is discovering your true purpose. And if you're living your true purpose, then you're going to have, quote unquote, everlasting life. In other words, your life's going to be full, everlasting. And what occurred to me at that point was that it really wasn't until mid to late life that you'd accrued enough experience and enough knowledge, pursued your gifts, recognized your natural proclivities and talents that you could pull all of that together and actually. discover what your purpose is. I know a lot of people discover a purpose early on, but I don't think a lot of people actually find their true purpose early on in life. I think we spend the first part of our lives acquiring, you know, and, and accruing different talents and different skills and different interests. And there comes a point when the world speaks to us this goes back to the idea that King Arthur said to Parsifal, you know, he said, when you get to the where the grill cup is, and it's held out in front of you, you can't reach out for it. In other words, you can't grab for that stuff with egotism. What you have to do is ask this question. How may I be of service? it's only at midlife when you've already done all the me, me, me stuff and building for yourself and your family that you can truly, ask the bigger question, what ails humanity? How may my particular skills, my particular talents, my particular interests, make an offering into the world. I believe that in mid to late life, we fashion that offering. in response to the thing in the world that speaks to us. for example, with myself, I looked back at my life and thought, I've been preparing for this my whole time. I've studied diet, oriental medicine. fasting. I've had sleep issues. I've always been on a spiritual path. I've always been involved in, Building communities, a bunch of the issues that we'll talk about later, but the issues that make up, the third act operating system, I've sort of been doing all of those. it was obvious to me that this is the place where I would be of greatest use to others and therefore to myself, to be able to make a true offering And I think each of us reaches that place. And I'm sure that to some extent, that's motivated you to do this podcast, to say, Hey, I've got this certain skill set I feel this certain calling out there. How can I respond to it? it's one thing to have a bucket list and bucket lists are great. one of the things I got very aware of in my late fifties and early sixties was that I had a huge amount of regrets, not only for. A lot of stupid things I'd done and opportunities I passed up, but in general in life many of those things I've had the chance to clean up or take responsibility for. And those were high on my bucket list, way higher than jumping out of an airplane. ultimately when we talk about the third act, the third act is all about. One of the things that really gets us to this place. A lot of people, when they are at their time of retirement or getting to their sixties, they say, what have I created of real value in the world? they ask themselves, have I created real value? Yes. You know, I've created kids, my sons and my daughters, and they've done this and that. I built a company and whatever it is, but that question still has a new level of meaning. When we're older, which is, what have I done for the world at large? You know, what have I done for the world beyond myself? I believe that that's a big function of the third act. and I think there's a lot of people out there feeling unmotivated in their third act because all the things they sought and chased. They either achieve them or they achieve them and they rang empty, you know, they Didn't really hit the mark in the way they needed to and and they want to ask that question They don't know where to find it now if you, you know, a lot of people took jobs just to take jobs because school guided them towards that as opposed to, their passion some would say, you can't earn a living doing that. later in life, I think we have the chance to. redeem that part and also to answer that bigger question is, you know, how may I create value in the world? What ails humanity? Joseph Campbell talks about, you know, the descent into hell and then you return with the elixir. And I believe that when you basically, when you hit 60, The elixir is right there. You just have to decide how you want to share it and what kind of offering you're willing to on fashioning to, to put it out into the world.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 12:22

I like that. And you often refer to it as an extraordinary third act. And I really like that. when I write extraordinary, I like to put parentheses around extra. To really emphasize that, you know, when we think of extraordinary, we tend to think Well, I'm not extraordinary because I'm not a celebrity or famous or wealthy, but you can be that extraordinary, simple person who maybe has a, custodial job or construction job And how many times we hear somebody say, I'm only this, or I'm just a, and you can be extraordinary in that. some of these people retire and we say, well, How can I have an extraordinary third act, I'm just a grandparent or, you know, I'm just, you know, whatever it has to be beyond just what we think to be celebrity or, our definition of extraordinary. how can individuals prepare for this stage of life?

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 13:22

I want to answer the thing, cause I think what you said is really important, It's that it's ordinary. And what makes it extraordinary is that you shift to a place where you finally say, I am enough. I've done enough. I've achieved enough. And in that enoughness, which is really quite ordinary for most of us, it doesn't matter how vast our resumes are and how many things we've done, we still reach this point in life that, we wake up, have to make our beds, feed ourselves showing up for life in a very conscious way. At that point, as opposed to just being on a treadmill or, raising our kids and having something in the outside world, motivating. what makes it extraordinary is being in acceptance of where I'm at, really acknowledging who I am and all that I've done in my life and how extraordinary that is. My spiritual, psychological, and emotional resume, putting that together in a unique way, that's truly extraordinary, and I think it's the way where it's actually possible that the last 20, 30, or 40 years of your life, which is what most people have now as a third act, the third act used to be five years 10 years long maximum, now it's 20, 30, 40, or even 50 years. It's can be longer than the whole second act. what's extraordinary, look at what Jimmy Carter did since he left president creating Habitat for Humanity. I mean, that's extraordinary, and all he did was just show up with his skillset and do what he did, you know, do be who he is you know, and there's lots of other examples of people doing that. I think this idea of extraordinary is really finally getting the place where We really acknowledge that we've done and say there's value in everything I've done. It's not that I've reached the end of the line of whatever my profession's been. It's that I've accumulated a huge amount of skills and how can I repurpose those? How can I reinvent myself in a way that, Is not extraordinary in the sense of celebrity or, running marathons at 99 years old, which are all fine, but still, waking up every day and feeling satisfied with your life because you're fully engaged. In creating value transformative communities and being part of meaningful collaborations to me. That's pretty extraordinary. I have the best relationships friendships and collaborations I've ever had in my life right now, and I'm not doing all that much. That's extraordinary.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 16:03

So many people really struggle with this idea of aging and often view it negatively. How can conscious aging change this perspective and what practical steps can individuals take to embrace aging more positively?

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 16:22

That's a great question. And really, the one that should be at everybody's mind and probably is at the forefront of all of our minds, when we, hit our sixties or whatever point is where, we start recognizing our true mortality, that this is not going to go on forever. we can't just ride. forward unconsciously we have to start making different choices. So in light of that, the first chapter in my book is we have to get to this place where we stop negotiating with reality. if you can't run marathons anymore, Then running a marathon and being in pain as a result of it, just so that you could put another notch on your belt is a recipe for suffering, not for life, you've been downsized in work, continuing to fight a lawsuit or whatever it is you want to do to not be in acceptance of that. again, it may be the right thing to do, but a lot of times it's just holding onto something that's no longer appropriate. for example, this whole idea of not negotiable is, when I'm young, I can eat French fries every day and never pay the price. at my age now, I can't eat wheat every day and then sit down and write a book because I'm foggy the next morning if I eat wheat. Now that's just for me, and everybody's got those things, I happen to need six, six and a half hours of sleep, but I need to get them before ten o'clock at night. If I get eight hours after ten o'clock at night, I'm still exhausted. I get and a half or seven before nine thirty, I'm exhausted. I'm good to go. So once I know that that's not negotiable anymore. In other words, if I'm not paying attention to what the new reality is of being in a 73 year old body and I want it to be some other way, then that's a recipe for suffering and unhappiness. and also being a pain in the ass to the people in your life who like saying, you know, grow up and you're, you know, you should know better. the other thing is, you see a lot is that, one of the things that happened to a lot of people when they start to get older is they start living in their stories. I have a chapter in the book the story you're telling is the life you're living. if you keep telling that same old story like one of the things that happened for me I designed six pavilions for a world's fair in South Korea in the nineties. at the top of that whole thing, I was sent home because the owners of the company didn't want to share the stage for me. And I had this huge resentment because it was the peak of my career as a designer. And, And I tell that story, I told that story ad nauseum and, and I couldn't move on with my life as a result how many people do we know that are older, that all they do, you hear the same stories over and over. It's like there's no room for a new story in there. a lot of this really boils down to acceptance, this is critical to the whole idea of conscious aging that I believe is the real upside of it, when you're younger, you don't really have a way to do a litmus test. for example, with sleep, if I'm bringing mindfulness and conscious awareness to how I feel from day to day, I notice that the days I don't sleep well, I can't do the fun things I want to do. I can't do the, service things I want to do. I can't hang out with the people I want to. if I'm using the fact that I've got this great feedback system these days, now that I'm older, which is my body, my mind, my emotions tell me very quickly, this works and this doesn't work. I actually believe that getting older is the ultimate feedback system for becoming a more conscious human being. when you're younger, you don't have any feedback, you want to stay up all night, one night. and two nights, three nights in a row. And the third night you got to go deliver. a, speech, you can do it. I can't even meet with you in the morning and have a conversation on a podcast if I haven't taken care of myself the day before. the short answer to your question is, this is the opportunity to actually pay attention and become more conscious. in that fine tune our happiness, fine tune our quotient for being present for, making a contribution.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 20:32

So can you share some examples or stories of individuals who have successfully navigated their third act, with a sense of purpose and fulfillment, as you've described it in your book?

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 20:43

before I do, I want to say this in direct response to your question. One of the biggest problems and one of the things that motivated me to write the book is, the third act identity crisis. This place between the Second Act and the identity you have in the Second Act of acquiring, accumulating, I see a new operating system as T in addition is challenging enough in the second act. High school accounts to varying ability. Absolutely. then we get to this place. That all of those things start to wind down, 50s, early 60s, whatever it is for each of us. then we go to a new value system, and the new value system, as I see it, the new operating system is collaborate, community, give back, become an elder, mentor, share life experience. So that transition is challenging enough, but it's particularly challenging because when we were younger in our first identity crisis going from high school to college, living in our parents house to living alone, marrying and building our own families. There's tons of role models for that. And there are very few role models for making the transition to the third act. So I already gave you a great one. which is Jimmy Carter, who for 30, 40 years after retiring as president made arguably a far greater contribution to the world than he did as a president. A lot of the other people that I know that are those kinds of role models, did it in the way that falls into the category of ordinary extraordinary, which was, they rose to the occasion. they had a passion when they were younger and gave it up to become a mother. now their kids are gone and they realize, you know, I've always missed that. Now I've got all this life experience. And they put together. They spend a year or something writing out a musical and doing a one person show, So yeah, there's a I think one of the things that we need to do is we need to celebrate this. And I'm going to suggest that I'm going to be doing in the next few weeks a magazine that every week has somebody who's actually achieving that. these new kinds of, role models. one of the things I'm going to be doing in the future is a weekly magazine every week has somebody who's actually, that, whatever it is they are, you know, and it's a, you know, it's like at 73, look how this person is reapplying themselves to life. you're probably an excellent role model for that, looking for a way to bring yourself back into the world that's really meaningful to you.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 23:41

Well, I appreciate that argument that, it's much more that ordinary extraordinary. when we look at people who maybe have had what others would consider that. Extraordinary life leading into the third act and then they get into that third act. Maybe it's an actor or a politician or somebody who they kind of hit that pinnacle of their career Then they have to retire from it and then what's next it feels like their Remaining life is a letdown they probably have to struggle more to find that conscious Third act to be able to find, you know, kind of re reformulate themselves, recreate themselves to do something much more impactive. And like you said, Jimmy Carter is far more impactive in his later years than he was. as a governor and as a president, there is somebody who basically, if you put extraordinary life in the dictionary, Jimmy Carter's picture would have to be right next to it.

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 24:39

we can look at the same thing with Bill Clinton, what Bill Clinton did with the Clinton Foundation in Africa. After his presidency was extraordinary, finding, ways to get fresh water and end malaria. I mean, this is huge. millions of people's lives were affected and he just took a skillset and all of the unique talents he had and his passion the question that he asked himself that we all have to ask ourselves is where can I make a real contribution? it couldn't be clearer with those two guys. another thing is when you talk about celebrities, one of the Issues that I have is if you look at ARP magazine, every month they show a celebrity on there. They only show celebrities now on ARP and they'll show a cover and it'll say Tom Cruise, 57. He still does his own stunts. So he's being measured by the second act parameters when he's approaching his third act. And most people continue to be measured by their second act parameters. And guess what? You're going to fall short. You're going to feel depressed and let down I think retirement is really more about reinvention, recreation, re imagining, you know, really asking myself, you know, what is it that I would really like to do now? for many people, it may be the first time in their life, they actually have the freedom to ask themselves that question. early on, they had to get the job. make enough to cover their mortgage and put their kids through school. a lot of people, made decisions that compromised what they were passionate about based upon the economic and personal parameters. required to, to do the things necessary in the second act. And so finally having the freedom to do that, whether you're on a set income, albeit fixed, albeit maybe even minimal. you're, you're not, you're not having to answer to somebody every day cause your kids have moved on. You, you actually have time to look at yourself and question yourself. friends are beginning to die pass away or move to other places. So. this time, you really for the first time ever have to say, who am I, what matters to me, how can I make a contribution, what have I left behind, you know, what, what didn't, what didn't I I would love to do now, what, what, what, what in world speaks to me.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 27:08

what roles do community and relationships we have in our life play in conscious aging? And how can people cultivate some of these more meaningful connections as we age?

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 27:19

That's so important because one of the biggest thing that happens is. We lose all of these relationships, right? If you leave your job, the five people or 200 people a day that you were meeting in the coffee room are gone and you make plans, okay, well, we'll have lunch well, once a month doesn't really cut it when you were seeing five or 200 people day, then you have friends that move away or to live near their grandchildren. Or friends that start to die, a very big reality as you continue to age. you just start losing people it's particularly challenging for men because women have always been relatively good at reaching out to one another for reasons other than professional benefit or networking, they do it just because they like each other. Maybe they share a common interest, but all of a sudden, if your world and your community shrinking, and you haven't really developed the skill set. To reach out to people because you like them, it requires a whole new skill set and a whole new, willingness. it happens to me all the time. I've got two or three people in the last four or five, months that I consider the best friends I've ever had in my life. Yeah. And they're only sick, you know, only known for six or six months or a year at this point, you know? that is because we met at a very real level. That is because I pursued the relationship, which I wasn't something I ever did in the past. You know, if I made one call to you and you didn't call me back, that was that, but if I find somebody now who interests me, who I admire, who I think is a role model for the way I want to live my life at this point in time, have to reach out to them. have to do that. And the other thing that you have to do for example, and I'm sure it's what's happening with you with doing the podcast, but it's certainly the case for me. I've written this book and all of the people that have come into my life as a result of writing the book, the president of AARP, the Dean of the top gerontology school the number one fitness expert for, baby boomers, and I could go on and on. All of those people now, they're part of a community. They're part of my community around my book. And I'm part of their community around the school or whatever it is. The other thing is that, the other way in which people lose community is, common interest, a lot of guys have community based on sports, you know, whether it's watching sports together or playing basketball with buddies, all of a sudden you get a knee injury and you can't play basketball anymore. What are you replacing it with? I was a mountain runner for many years, and I've mountain ran alone for the most part, but I've had knee replacement and I can't, I could mountain run again and I sometimes run 200 yards every 800 yards. I do my It's training isolated, and this is how the worst of aging happens. Well, I can't do that anymore, but I've been saying since nobody has satisfaction, the other priority, it's on us to do that. it's so easy to fall into, but it's saying that all of these things are smoking away. I believe that when you find your purpose, you're the central hub in a, in a, expanding again. and have an incredible community around that. You know, I'm a swimmer. I've got a community at my swimming pool. I'm a meditator. I have a meditation group. I go to five days a week. First thing in the morning, those people are a new community that wouldn't be there if I didn't have, if I wasn't. my time and energy into that interest. it's got to be a heroic effort. I believe for most people, when they get older to, rather than succumb to the fact that your communities are shrinking or disappearing, that your relationships are ending or have changed radically, or people aren't as available to you, it's a heroic effort to go and make that happen. The downside is. You become isolated. You become lost. You become depressed. People aren't there for you when you need them. And, doesn't just happen by accident. It happens by saying, this is how most of aging happens. I don't really like that anymore. That's not really that important. Oh, I don't want to do that. every time we do that, every little decision like that shrinks our life. one of the greatest differences between being young and being old, an old person, that when you're young, you're curious about everything, you're willing to try everything new, and when you're old, it's like, there, done that, I don't like that anymore, I can't do that anymore, rather than saying, well, I can't do that anymore, but I could do this, would you like to do this with me? Oh, I've got this new interest. I'm a big basketball fan. I've never played it, but I thought maybe I'll go out and buy a basketball and just start shooting hoops. I'm horrible at it. And I thought that would be fun. I'll find a couple of friends to do it. I actually wrote about it in my book. I'm not going to be running up and down the court, but I could play half court and be bad at it. being good at things is no longer the priority for doing them. For me, the priority for doing things now is that they bring me joy. Okay. they bring me a certain kind of satisfaction. The other priority is that I get to do them with people I care about. here's the bottom line it's on us to do that because no one's going to do it for us. And it's so easy to fall into not noticing that all of these things have slipped away. Finally, one last thing. I believe that when you find your purpose, you become the central hub in a bunch of overlapping communities. it pulls you into additional communities. That's my personal experience and the experience of a lot of people I know. I'm sure you've already had that experience with your podcast. you meet people in the field of electronics you meet other podcast people and you know, your world starts expanding again when, when a lot of the other people around you. Are complaining about how small their worlds are becoming and how many things they don't do anymore.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 33:19

What about transgenerational connections? How important are they in conscious aging? reaching out to those younger and, to people older than us as well. what role do those play in terms of really benefiting us as we're trying to more consciously age and experience that extraordinary third act?

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 33:42

I love that. I do coaching, personal coaching and mostly I've been focused on people transitioning into their third act or creating, I work with a woman who's, you know, a couple of people that are doing encore careers, you know, help them launch their new careers. But it's so strange because I've got this group of 30 and 40 year old guys that have decided that I'm their guy, I work with this one guy who rode across the Atlantic alone

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 34:08

Oh, wow.

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 34:09

this other guy I was talking about earlier, who's a captain on this 80 foot boat they need and want that life experience and what comes with it. we don't live in a culture that values the elder, elders aren't valued. we don't have a lot of role models for people that have either reinvented themselves or are making a real contribution. So I think it's huge. there's not a single 70 year old. Grandparent that doesn't tell you their greatest joy in life is being with their grandchildren. one of the big things that's happened in the business world now is this idea of, a lot of large corporations have, when people are ready to retire, they work after retirement gigs with them, where the people either become, mentors to existing people even though the technology may have passed. as an elder in that company, the skillset they had around their unique piece of their professional life is still being valued. one of the other things that happens a lot, in the business world these days is that, not only are you brought in as a mentor, but a lot of people go back into the world and they become, volunteers. just to be in that world and to explore something new. being around those people is, really invigorating. if you're losing your own sense of a future and of hope, you want to be around people that are passionate about that for you as well. Staying involved with younger people is incredible, one of my favorite quotes of all time comes from Francis Ford Coppola, the film director. he said, collaboration is the sex of creativity. what I think he's saying about that is, when we collaborate, we truly make love. the emotional state of love, we actually generate love. in my personal career, having been a creative doing projects where 200 people worked on an IMAX film that I was the producer and director of, there's no greater feeling of love created than In the heat of collaboration on a creative project in work, you get to uncover, discover and create a new widget or a new approach to a sales pitch and it's easy for collaboration to fall by the wayside. the best collaborations are not only with people our own age, but the transgenerational ones, they're extraordinary. I have people all the time that want to invite me into their endeavor. Because they want what I bring from my age and I want to be a part of this feeling of momentum and joy that they have in creating something new.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 36:36

Yeah, that's one of the biggest blessings I have in my life is being a college professor and being able to experience that on a daily basis with my students. it's not just a matter of getting up and regurgitating a bunch of knowledge that I've accumulated over the years. to me, it's that sensation of being able to create something better than myself. as I educate my students, I want them to get smarter than me. I want them to know more than me and learn more than me. So that eventually I'm the one that needs to be learning from them.

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 37:08

I think that's absolutely necessary and it's what the circle of life is. you go to any third world country. And the most prized person is the elder, you know, and you know, that's what the elder gets out of it too, is they get that joy of having passed along something that's going to make future generations more capable and, of greater value to their fellows.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 37:34

it seems like it's relatively unique to the United States and maybe a few other, larger countries, especially the more affluent countries where. Aging is less appreciated, we tend to limit ourselves as we age and not recognize that there is great benefit to society, community, and everything else with having older people around and what we can contribute, even if we're in those less than extraordinary careers, we need to recognize that we can contribute more to those around us.

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 38:10

and that really requires that we're willing to adapt to the reality of being in an older body that may not achieve at the same level, may not be as fast, but it's got a whole new set of skills that are extraordinarily valuable wisdom, about how things play out. we don't have to make as many stupid mistakes. we've made enough that hopefully we're taking, account of those things. historically what happened, you know, retirement is a relatively new thing. Right. Basically happened in the fifties. Of the last, you know, 1950 or so prior to that, there was really no such thing as retirement. the average person lived to 62. They worked right up until the end. then they had two, three, four, five years of, critical demise. then all of a sudden, you know, we lived longer, we had savings, we may have had a pension fund. you know, these are modern inventions we take for granted. Nutrition, exercise, psychology. all peaked and came into fruition in the middle of the last century. These are all things that have affected could be the period known as retirement. But there's been this lag time between when those things happened and the fact that we've now got 20, 30, or 40 years and any reality to what that retirement might look like, that it could actually be not only as valuable as anything we've ever done, but one of the catchphrases I use in my book is, the rest of your life could be the best of your life. if I put together all of the aspects of myself in one place and make a contribution, I can't imagine anything feeling better than that. for example, personally, I get to teach meditation. I get to do yoga. help people with diet and sleep. And help people with facing their story, the story they're telling and letting go of the old story. I get to coach people into encore professions. Every skill I've ever worked on I get to use in one place. That's so incredibly satisfying. So, if you ask me, as you did in the beginning, what's my bucket list? My bucket list is to be me. in all that I've become. And I believe, That if we reframe this idea of retirement and do reinvention, redesign, recreation, re imagining, allowing, you know, then, then, you know, the, the, the possibilities are really quite extraordinary.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 40:35

Yeah, it really brings us back to the concept of purpose. And I had on an earlier podcast, I had Anne Hall who, Her business is the purpose equation, and she works with people to identify their purpose is, and her perspective of purpose was much more the what gets you up in the morning, what gets you going, and striving for whatever you're going to accomplish in that day, and that's something we begin to recognize younger in life, and that's what's driving us through our careers, second age into third age, and so on, But then there's that more dynamic idea of purpose where it's, you know, why have we had that purpose all our lives? What's it leading us to? What are we supposed to do with it now as we enter into that third age? I really think it's this two faced aspect of purpose where it's what drives us, but then it's also why we're being driven the way we're being driven and what we're supposed to do with that.

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 41:33

Really? Well, you know, the title of my previous book, the prodigy within was that I believe that behind every single interest I've ever had, every single job that came to me, either Because I chased it, or it just came randomly out of nowhere. All of those things came for a reason. And when I look back over the course of my life, and I've done this with many other people, helping them to do the same, when I look back over that, it became pretty obvious that all of those things came together so that I could be this particular person that I am now. so I believe the greater purpose is to take all of those diverse experiences, Take my natural interests, take my hobbies, and that somehow, not every single one of them, but something cultivated in all those different phases of life. All were there to generate a being who's in a place where that being can make a contribution, you know, truly be an elder in the highest sense of the term where they're giving back to their tribe, to their culture, to their community, to their family, to their nation, you know, and, so listening for that prodigy within, you know, it's still small voice that's been guiding me and then valuing it. is essential to the process. And like I said, I don't really feel like we're in a place to do that until late life, when we're no longer distracted with all the other things we have to do. And we actually asked the question, you know, have I created real value? What do I really want to do? What brings me joy at this point in life where I'm not going to the office anymore, where I'm not taking kids to the, to, you know, soccer game every day. you know, and, and from that, making some decisions and I think there's some of them as small as saying, you know, I really like gardening. Or, I like basketball. Hey, shooting a hoop once every two weeks with friends, you know, be great. That's on the smallest level. And, you know, we have this like, we have this strange idea about happiness that it's both a place and a level of achievement. when in fact when you look at what actually makes you happy, when I look back at what makes me happy, it's The quality of the things I do every day, you know, I love swimming. I love swimming 30 to 40 minutes. I don't love swimming when I do 45 minutes or an hour. it's no longer fun for me. good exercise, maybe beyond there, but I might need a nap after that. I love going to my meditation group and sitting for 20 minutes. Would I like it as much if it was an hour long sit every day? Maybe not. So, defining all these little things and actually really looking at what is. I talk in the book also about authentic happiness, and it's being grateful for all the little small things that make up a day, you know, being able to be there for your students, putting together your, your for the year, you know, all the little pieces of something are where the happiness and the joy reside. And if I'm no longer busy achieving the ultimate goal, and I can put my attention on the little pieces in service to a greater purpose. I, I think I'm in, you know, an extraordinary place.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 45:03

I've often been asked the question. If you could go back in time and change one thing in your life, what would it be? What would you change? And my response has always been nothing because I know that if I change even the worst thing that I've ever done in my life, it's going to alter who I am right now, and it's going to alter other people along that pathway. And, you know, it's altering the trajectory of life and the fabric of time and presence and everything. I really wholeheartedly believe that we're going through the experiences that we go through at the time we go through them for the purpose of developing us for that purpose that you talk about

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 45:41

I'll inadvertently answer your question. I spent far too much of my life being a victim. I lived an upper middle class life, you know, and yet I still participated in being the victim of an alcoholic father and this and that, whatever the issues were. And, and I have to say that being liberated from that and no longer making my decisions based upon being a victim is something I truly wish I would have gotten to sooner, but I'm happy that I've gotten to it now. I think that so easy for people when they go to the third act for their victimhood to increase. I don't have enough money. My kids don't call me back. I don't like the food they serve at this home. I can't do this anymore. victimhood becomes one of the cornerstones of a lot of people's conversations. the story you're telling is the life you're living. to be relieved of that story at this point in life. That's the single greatest gift I could have gotten. And it was not, it was a lot of psychological and spiritual work to get to it. for me, it took a whole life to get to it. You know, it wasn't until I turned 60 that I was kind of finally free my victim story. but thank God, because when I look around and see other people in their 60s, 70s, 80s, I mean, obviously we know a lot of people in their forties. That's all they do is tell you their victim story, you know, the doctor thing, the, you know, way their kids are smoking pot or whatever it is, right? so yeah, so my answer is, stop being the victim and start becoming a co creator.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 47:26

That's perfect answer I like that And so for another question that I do ask of all my guests, what are you doing personally to age well? I know you've touched on some of this but I want to have it all put together in one little package here at the end.

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 47:38

giving myself a little bit of fudge room. You know, like chocolate once in a while, whatever it is, I can't drink, so I don't drink alcohol anymore, paying attention to those things. So that's a big deal for aging well, I don't want the story that they generate becoming a part of my everyday conversation, So that's one of the things. Second thing is that I'm committed. To the art of conscious aging in terms of putting it out there as a message, feeling that some higher spiritual force in the universe, you know, tap me on the head and said, this is your gift. This is the thing that you have to share that you can do and looking for ways to do that. embracing the opportunities as they come forth. That's certainly a big part, reaching out and creating relationships and valuing community. When I never did that before. Also part of, the art of conscious aging for me and aging will, giving myself permission, really being okay with this idea of enough, part of that is not judging myself by what I used to be able to do and what I can't do now, but instead going, well, a two, three mile hike is fine. a hike to a place where I sit and meditate rather than, putting seven miles under my belt or 10 miles under my belt. coming to the place where enough is enough, huge part of enjoying the quality of my later life. And, finally cultivating this passion or curiosity again, it's like, what's in front of me, what can hold me, because I don't know how this thing that I'm doing is going to unfold, I don't know how the book's going to get published or what kind of speaking gigs, any of that kind of stuff, all I know is that It's my job to reach out and put it there and then to embrace whatever comes along. a lot of the past was being a victim or living in the life of not enough. I couldn't really be happy with what showed up. if that's still a part of your life, when you're older, that the Buddhists say all, attachment is suffering. if you have an attachment, if you have something you're holding onto, something you want to happen, probably not going to happen exactly as you want. So there's some degree of suffering in there but if you live in acceptance and surrender, which is, what I attempt to do now, a lot of that is by saying, These are the things I like. Meditating daily gives me that perspective Being in community with people you like. I don't have anyone in my world anymore, except for maybe family members that I don't want to spend time with. even my family members, I made peace with all of them. I have the best relationships I've ever had in my life. there's really no one in my life professionally or personally that I don't want to be with and that don't value me. it's sort of across the board decisions, about quality of life decisions and knowing that enough is enough.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 50:31

you are aging well,

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 50:34

Thank you.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 50:34

I think this has been a fascinating conversation as I knew it would be as we first kind of talked a couple weeks ago. is there anything left that you want to add?

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 50:44

if anybody's interested in exploring these questions, you can go to my website, I offer a 30 minute discovery session where we can talk about possible ways to interact together, I have, a page that you can download on what I believe are the elements of authentic happiness. another page where you can sign up. I write these daily fortune cookies. I don't send them out daily right now, but they're 299 word, statements on conscious aging reach out, and I'm always interested in talking to anybody who's either successfully made this transition and wants to share it with others or is grappling with how to do it themselves.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 51:23

So you've shared the website, the book that's available on Amazon. Barnes and Nobles and all your standard bookstores is that available also on the website?

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 51:31

Well, the book that's available is the prodigy within my other book will be out in about two months. if you go to my website and sign up for it, I'll let when the copies are coming out. that'll be, the art of conscious aging, an operating manual for an extraordinary third act.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 51:47

Okay, that will be shared in the description notes as well. that way have a link for the web page Wayne I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation Thank you. Keep making the third act extraordinary keep aging. Well,

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 52:01

thanks for your passion the contribution you're making, Jeff. This was really cool. I appreciate the opportunity to share.

jeff_1_09-03-2024_083918: 52:07

to do this again

squadcaster-4e6j_1_09-03-2024_083918: 52:08

I look forward to

52:15

Thank you for listening. I hope you benefited from today's podcast. Until next time, keep aging well.