Episode 183:Wrestling Like a Girl to... Age Well w/ Sally Roberts

Join Dr. Jeff Armstrong as he welcomes Sally Roberts, a former elite wrestler and the co-founder/CEO of Wrestle Like a Girl. Sally shares her inspiring journey from a troubled youth to becoming a world bronze medalist and a powerful advocate for women and girls in sports. Discover how wrestling can build confidence, bridge cultural gaps, and foster gender equity. Sally discusses her organization's global impact, the importance of staying active and healthy, and offers actionable advice for supporting the mission. Learn about key events like the National Collegiate Women's Wrestling Championships and ways to get involved in transforming lives through passion and dedication. Above all, learn how wrestling shapes women and sets them up for... aging well

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Transcript

0:03

On this episode of the Aging Well Podcast, I'm excited to welcome Sally Roberts, a former elite wrestler and the dynamic co founder and CEO of Wrestle Like a Girl. Sally has not only made her mark in the world of wrestling, but has also become a powerful advocate for empowering women and girls through sports. Her journey from the wrestling mat to leading an organization dedicated to breaking barriers and promoting gender equity is nothing short of inspiring. I am thrilled to have her share her insights on resilience, leadership, and the role of sports in aging well.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 0:37

Sally, it is a tremendous pleasure to have you on the Aging Well podcast. So let's begin by having you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to become an icon in the sport of wrestling.

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 0:50

Thank you for having me. Really, really honored, quite humbled to be here. I'm a two time world bronze medalist at combat veteran and special operations and the co founder and CEO of wrestle like a girl, which is now the global advocacy organization for girls and women in the sport of wrestling. And I came into this world, into the sport. Um, really I say some people find wrestling and then for other people, wrestling finds them. And I was one of those people that wrestling found me. I'm growing up. I had a troubled childhood. I would go out after school and shoplift and break into houses and get into fights, usually against boys. But I was one and I got put in front of a juvenile detention officer who, like everyone at this point in their life, but just completely had it. They were all exasperated and they said, Hey, listen, if you don't find an after school activity, you're going to face going to juvenile detention and I couldn't have told you about Pacific University or, you know, Stanford University of Washington any of those schools because no one in my peer group went But I could have told you about juvenile detention because I had so many so many of my crew they did go And they all just came back and said you don't you don't want to go there like if you have an opportunity to play after school and have fun. Do that. So I did. I actually tried out for all the girls sports, softball, basketball, volleyball, and they're all team sports. And when I would go out for the teams, I found myself getting cut because, well, the athletic coach said I didn't know how to play well with others. But that was crazy. I did know how to play well with, I didn't, um, they said it was not athletic, which wasn't true. I was plenty athletic. It's that I didn't know how to play well with others. Like I thought of, I thought fighting was a form of love. Like it was just a completely different culture of how I got raised. And so I was. Like, okay, well, I tried out for all the girls sports. So what do I do now? And I looked at the list of afterschool opportunities and I saw that wrestling was a no cut sport. And this was back in what? 1992. This wasn't, this was when like, you know, there was a. There was an effort, like Title IX had already been passed, but girls and women, like when sports weren't really getting, um, overly involved. And I was like, that's it. I'm going to go out and wrestle. Like, they can't cut me. And as long as they don't cut me, I'm not going to go to juvie. And that was like, that was the reality of my landscape. And the reason why I even got involved in the sport of wrestling at all.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 3:22

I was wrestling in high school, there were some girls, very few girls that were, you know, starting to kind of break into the sport, but there was so much resistance on the part of the sport itself. And there were rules in place that really made it difficult for girls to wrestle. Like, I think one of the rules that some of the states came up with it, you had to weigh in in your underwear. So, of course, that's going to kind of discourage a lot of girls from doing it. And obviously, there were some girls that said, it. I'll get up there in front of the boys in my underwear because I'm going to go out and wrestle. And, you know, it was those girls and women like yourself that, know, have really pushed this sport forward. And I would make the argument that the men's sport right now is, has been saved and is stronger because, you know, Girls have started to really grow in the sport. And you know, I helped coach strength and conditioning at a local high school, you know, where my son wrestled we've had, we have a few girls last year on the team. We had one girl who is just a phenomenal wrestler. I mean, she was better than most of the boys on the team. She's been an international champion and medalist. Um, And even she couldn't draw girls into the program. And we have, you know, one girl right now that's a pretty solid wrestler on the team. And every time I see her, it's like, you know, you're getting any of your friends to come out. And she's really trying to work on them. But why should girls wrestle?

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 4:48

Oh, I think that, well, let's, let's reverse that question and say, Why should boys wrestle? And what happens to the boys that do wrestle? I mean, the boys that wrestle, you see them building their character, they're developing confidence, they're learning how to play well with others. And when they're learning these skills, character, traits, attributes, and they're learning how to make that a part of their internal constitution, it really changes them and it drives them to become better citizens. And what happens to these, the better citizenry that gets created? We can look, we can look at the annals of history and see where our wrestlers have ended up. They become presidents of the United States, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, um, leaders of global, uh, Fortune 100 companies, leaders of movements. And so when I take a step back and say, wait a minute, If that's what happens to our boys, then doesn't it make sense? If that's what would happen to our girls. And sure enough, it is girls are going out and wrestling and they're getting the courage, the character and the confidence that gets instilled, um, to anyone that participates in that sport and where are they going? Well, we we've only right now started to develop that. Educational, that financial, social education, mobility pathway. And the girls right now are growing through that, that pathway. They're becoming women. They're getting college educated. They're going on to the military services, to the trade unions. They're becoming entrepreneurs, starting companies. They're taking, they're running for office and the world, quite frankly, is their oyster. And the more that we see that, um, women's wrestling is progressing, um, the more that we see that the fabric of America is getting strengthened because it is in fact, those girls and women, like the state of California said, Hey, it's going to be a mandated policy that we have women that serve on the board of public companies. as I Okay, well, who's going to be those women like who are going to be the women breakfast. are able to, as I jokingly say, able bullets for breakfast and sit across the table from, um, 11 to 15 men as they're really grinding out what is the better move for corporate company. to going to be these women that I've gone through the sport of wrestling. had one of my really dear friends, the um, major general Paul Kennedy, he was in charge of recruiting command for the Marines and he was one of the key people that made it so that, um, women were able to be in the infantry in the Marines. And he was standing around with some of his brethren and he said, mark my words. The very first. a female that's going to make it through this infantry course is going to have wrestled because that's the only place within our American landscape where you have to learn how to dig deep, where you're getting punched in the face on a regular basis, you're getting your butt handed to you and you have to look at your opponent Smile and get up and know that it has everything to do with you, your head, your heart, your mind, your internal constitution. And sure enough, the very first female that made it through the infantry course for the United States Marine Corps. Um, when, when she got finished, um, Major General Paul Kennedy pulled her side and he said, Hey, um, Marine, what's your background? And she said. I wrestled and scattered away and it was just like proof of concept. The women that are getting created to go through these tremendous pipelines um, of challenge, which is in fact just, we call it life, they're wrestlers.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 8:27

I literally got chills listening to you give that whole answer. That was awesome. And, really, the simple answer is, who shouldn't wrestle, right? And so obviously face some obstacles in this whole process, and I think we're seeing those barriers begin to tumble down much more rapidly. I mean, the, it's like a snowball rolling down a hill. I mean, all this stuff is The sport is just growing tremendously fast. And I, I credit it to people like yourself and the, you know, forerunners in the sport and the people who are so passionate about the sport. But what obstacles did you face as a female in a male dominated sport when you started wrestling?

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 9:08

I think that when people start wrestling, they're either running from something or running to something. And you either have, um, a challenging background that you are punching your way out of, or you've been given a life that you need to punch your punch your way into adversity. So you understand how to deal with that. And for me, um, you know, Of course, you're going to have societal challenges and you're going to have cultural challenges, for sure. I mean, I think you're going to have that whether you're male, whether you're female, regardless of your race, religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, you're going to have those challenges. The number one challenge that everyone has across the board that they have to navigate, is their mind. The mind dominates the body. And if you can overcome any of any of the negativity, any of the challenge, if you cannot learn how to find the joy in suffering, no one is going to survive in the wrestling room. So for me, my biggest challenge was figuring out all of these hurdles that I had to jump across and how I was going to figure out how to find the joy in that suffering and using it as a motivating tool.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 10:51

And how do you believe sports, particularly wrestling, contribute to the empowerment and really the personal development of women and girls?

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 11:01

Well, you know, with the passage of Title IX in 1972, it was a very, you know, there was a promise made to our girls and women that if, if there is an opportunity that is presented to our male counterparts and there's federal funding, federal assistance behind that, they get to participate too. And, and really it's an extension of that vision, which is. Women that understand how to take care of themselves, they understand how to take care of their teammates, they understand how to play on a team, and they're positive, contributing members to society, they're going to be able to nurture communities, and when you start to incorporate, why does that matter? Because women take care of their families. They take care of their homes. They take care of communities. Um, when you look at them as business leaders, women take care of the, the cultural fabric of their businesses. When, when men tend to be more transactional and that's, that's historic. You can look through, um, a lot of different leadership manuals on just the difference of how men and women create. Um, when it came to, uh, Uh, the signing of the Good Friday Accord, um, in, in Ireland. There was a lot of fighting and there was a lot of infighting. And when Hillary Rodham Clinton made a decision to bring more female leaders to the table, because it was the women that were involved in the communities that were getting, um, killed, that their families were getting murdered. When they brought the women to the table, um, they found, um, a stronger ability to find peace, remedy and reconciliation quicker. And they found, they found that when women have a seat at the table, um, there's lasting peace. They're more serious about making sure that there is peace. So when we talk about the empowerment of women, we're talking about why does sports play a role? There's, there was a landmark study from Ernst and Young. 94 percent of female C suite executives have played a sport. So The science already shows why sport is important. Now, the big challenge is figuring out how do we open up those avenues of opportunity for our girls and women? And it doesn't necessarily have to be the easiest avenue. It's okay to work hard, but here's the, here's the interesting thing. And I actually had to learn about this myself in business. There's been so many times where I felt like I had to earn my seat at the table. That meant that there was this business meeting happening or, or a sporting event, right? If we want to just go and use that term. And I felt like I had to earn my right to be there. So here's what I did. I, um, crawled through broken glass under barbed wire, like withholding food and withholding water, and, and, um, bullets were coming over the top of me. And by the time I get to the finish line, and I'm like, oh my gosh. I did it. I made it. I have now earned my seat at the table. My male counterparts are getting out of their Ferraris with their fresh, clean shirts, getting finished eating, um, eating a sandwich and drinking some water, and they're sitting down, freshed. They're sitting down fresh. So here's me feeling like I needed to earn my seat at the table, but guess what? That's where the work begins. And if you're coming to that table and you're already exhausted, then you actually have another 50 yards to go before you, or you even have the mental capacity to start working alongside your male counterparts. So. We do need to open up those doors of opportunity so that everyone can start at that same, they start at the same starting line and they move forward together. There's a, there's another study from the Tucker Center, um, the Research for Girls and Women in Sport run by Dr. Nicole LaVoie, um, out of the University of Minnesota. And there was a research study, they found that when girls and boys play sports, Um, at younger ages, they're able to get along and work collaboratively at older ages. And we want our American society to understand how to work together. And when we give kids that if we give them sport, girls, boys, men, women, the opportunity to play together and learn societal rules under the umbrella of fun, but learning yourself and learning how to play with others, then the outcome, the product of that. is a better, stronger nation, a better, stronger community, and better, stronger familial structures.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 15:27

So you've obviously Fought the fight getting to the table. And once you've gotten to that table, have you faced particular challenges or specific challenges in advocating for gender equity in sports? And kind of what have you had to do to overcome those?

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 15:46

Yeah. So in terms of what my biggest challenge has been, my biggest challenge, my biggest limiter has been myself. Um, I got a business coach and that happened because he's in the sport. He's seen the way that I'm ebbing and flowing. And he came to me and said, Hey, Sal, um, I've known you for about 20 years. I'm a very successful business person. And. I think I can help you. Would you, would you be okay, would you be open to the idea, the possibility of perhaps me guiding you? And, and he really was smart in how he presented that because Sure enough, I would have said no if I felt like I was being pressured, I was being forced. I mean, I adamantly stood on this foundation, on this earth that I had formed and created and I put my flag in and I said, we're going forward from here. And, and I had to learn how to Play well with others. I still didn't know how to do that. So at one point, um, my business coach said to me, Hey, um, Hey, Sal pal. Um, what are all these dead bodies around you? And I said, Oh, good question. That person disagreed with me. That person didn't like my idea. That person said, no, that person was annoying. That person turned us down for funding. And he looked at me and said, um, you know, you're doing this all wrong. I said, what do you mean? I'm doing it all wrong. And he said, you know, your, your job is actually to be gaining alignment. And I looked at him very confused and I said, listen, the only time I've ever heard anyone tell me anything about alignment was when it was either talking about my back or my car. I don't have any idea what alignment is. And he said, your job is to be a head coach. I looked at him and said, I'm not a head coach. I'm a CEO. He was like, yeah, you're a CEO of a, of an organization of a movement. He said, your job is to be tending, um, Shepherding the movement while tending to your flock. And I looked at him, still a little bit confused. And one of my good friends is Kale Sanderson. And he said, Sally, your job is to be Kale Sanderson. And I got hit with this reality of Oh my God. If I am supposed to be a leader like Kale Sanderson, I am so wrong. I'm not bringing people together. I'm not loving them. I'm not nurturing them and building them up with positivity. I'm completely annihilating you if we don't have alignment and then I'm rolling right through you. And so I had a moment to stop and think about, well. What is leadership and what does that mean? And, and am I a leader? And if I was a leader, what's my leadership style? And I felt, you know, for about two weeks, I was, I was. In existential crisis because I had not looked at myself and thought of myself as being a leader. I just thought I'm Sally. And I went out on a limb and I started this organization because the girls and women deserved it. And there was no one else. So I got stuck with the short end of the stick. And. And, and so when I looked at myself and said, I'm a leader and I had to start looking at myself on a regular basis and saying, I'm a leader, I'm a shepherd of the movement. My job is to tend to my flock. I mean, that was, that was the biggest hurdle that I've had to overcome. And I still, on a regular basis, I'm continuing to. understand leadership, learning how to lead myself so that I can lead other people. And it's been, um, profound. I should say, like, I never thought in my life that I would be here and I would be posing questions about how do I lead myself better? How can I lead people better? Oh,

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 19:38

And we should be clear for the listener, the viewer, that when you talk about dead bodies surrounding you, that we're talking figuratively. Right?

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 19:47

is that only highlights, um, my world. I came from special operations. I mean, I got picked on teams in my special ops world because I wasn't the nicest person. I hadn't killed anybody, but listen, give me a good reason. I'm just kidding. You know, I was just that I was fairly aggressive and I prided myself on that aggression because that's what I needed when I was growing up. Like that was my most basic instinct.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 20:13

And that kind of leads to my next question, which, you know, wrestling requires a tremendous amount of resilience. so how has your experience as a wrestler influenced your perspective on aging? We're going to kind of shift to the aging point now and staying resilient as you, as you get older, because you had to deal with that you kind of aged in the sport. And it is a sport that can age you out relatively young. And, you know, because it's not like years and years of professional, um, I know you competed on the, you know, the Olympic level, world level, um, what were you, bronze medalists in the world games, right? And

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 20:52

times.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 20:53

yeah. I love that. Stud. Um, what is the female equivalent to stud? And can we still say that in sports as we become more, gender balanced in sport? Um, but anyhow, what is kind of your perspective now as a, as a wrestler? And I think, you know, you're once a Marine, always Marine, once a wrestler, always a wrestler, right? how has that influenced your perspective on aging and really staying resilient as you get older? And they were both in the ship. Like, well, maybe

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 21:26

My entire sense of self and being has, continues to get shaped. I mean, first off we get smarter or at least we hope that we do. So starting out in my career, I would lead with my head, literally and figuratively. I was like a bull in a china shop. I didn't care if I got concussions. I had no idea if, um, It didn't matter. I wasn't conscientious about my nutrition. Um, I was really able to put my body and mine, my head and body through the ringer, um, so that I could win. Nothing was more important than winning. And as I continued to just. Get more educated on the importance of nutrition on the importance of hydration. I had a better diet I stayed better with hydration, you know, and and I stopped leading with my head I like my head coach Terry Steiner He came from the University of Iowa and there was a training philosophy called Iowa style which is just super aggressive and you would punch and you would fight and it would be um, It was like, it was more like fighting than wrestling. And then as I started to really embrace a different way of being, I started looking at Penn State and they were focused on. On wrestling tactically, beautiful matches, not being afraid of fighting. You'd fight if you needed to technically and tactically proficient, where you didn't have to lead with your head, where you didn't have to get concussions. And if you did get a concussion, um, instead of Iowa style, where you fight. said you, you may were like, well, maybe I did, or maybe I didn't. I'm going to wrestle through it. It was, Whoa, with me sit back and get some head and heart alignment and make sure that my faculties are good so I can retain my sensibilities. too. And I say, okay, I'll and then as I continued on through my career, um, so I was an athlete. on a basically just ran myself into brick walls. I as a soldier again, ran myself into brick walls. that And then up until recently as a CEO, I mean, my, my gift is also my kryptonite, which is when I fall in love, when I find something I like, I become so passionate about it, that nothing can take away. My focus and my drive. So that was about 10 years at a very elite level for the wrestling, 10 years being in the militaries, both special operations and wrestling for the army's world class athlete program. And then, you know, I'm at year nine for wrestle like a girl. And if it wasn't for my business coach that, um, let me expend all of my energy, all that kinetic energy that I just, I'm like the Tasmanian devil. Once that was expended, then it was, Oh. Come back, sit back. Let's talk about how we can lead as a business leader. Um, a new way. And I started meditating. I started doing Wim Hof breath work. Um, I've been diving into, um, different retreats that people go to so that they can essentially, um, When I started working with my business coach, he said, if we'd only work with me under one condition and that was that I had to go to therapy and I said, go to therapy. What are you talking about? But I held him in such high esteem that I said, okay, I'll do it. And I said, I'll go. But why? And he said, because most people have a hard time going from good to great because they can't let go of the bullshit baggage around their ankles. And I was like, Oh, I got a lot of baggage. I'll go. Let's just start offloading it. I didn't understand exactly what he meant, but that meant that I'm now diving into understanding food and nutrition in a way that makes you cognitively stronger. I'm understanding hydration and not just necessarily water. Water's great, but also just the importance of electrolytes. I'm an understanding. exercise, but not the kind of exercise that I need to run six minute mile repeats to feel good about myself, the kind of exercise that I'm doing it at such a pace that it makes it so that I can start remembering conversations and it ties into my brain synapses brain's axis, memory and recall so that I can function at a higher level for longer. Um, I'm learning about rest, healing and recovery, like my sleeping. Schedule is so dialed in. I'm stronger now because I've taken these things serious. That's like, I learned chapters from wrestling and I've learned a chapter of knowledge from, from the military. And I've learned a chapter of knowledge from absolutely exhausting myself as a CEO, doing everything wrong, but trying to run my business. Like I'm an Iowa wrestler and it's like, Oh, wait a minute. I can tighten everything up. I can. I can be far more strategic, far more intelligent. I can, um, work less, um, have just the same outcome, if not better, enjoy my life more, enjoy being around my friends and family and, and serve the people. And, and I, I never thought it was possible, but my business coach said, Sally, you know, um, you can have it all. And I thought, no, no, no, no, no. You can't have it all. Like if we have our five Fs, faith, family, fitness, friends, and finances, One of them has to suffer. That's just sort of the way life works. And he looked at me like I was crazy and said, no, not one area has to suffer. You can, in fact, have it all. And I was like, huh, okay. So very timidly, I started moving forward. And I am in fact, finding the, that you don't have to find joy and suffering. You can actually just enjoy your life, build everything up and live a really beautiful life where you can have it all. You can work out and have fun and you can eat and have fun and you can drink as much as you want. Um, and have fun. I've been sober for, um, since the beginning of this year and I'm having fun.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 27:25

Wow, uh, and that really goes beyond what I was going to ask my next question. So I'm going to have to expand on this next question. I was going to ask you kind of about the role physical activity plays in aging well, especially for women. I think you've hammered a lot of that home, but I think it's probably more important to ask the question. What role does that balance, or what I refer to as well centered fitness, which is, you know, the spiritual, the physical, intellectual, emotional, and social. What that balance plays in us aging well, and again, particularly for women, because like you said, a lot of women, like yourself, would think that you can't have all of those areas in balance, something has to give. And the, uh, what was it, faith, family, friends, and finance, was that the four? Yeah.

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 28:12

My, my five F's faith, family, fitness, friends, and finances.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 28:16

Okay, so those five are kind of along that similar vein, you know, we tend to think that one of those has to give in order for the others, but in reality, everything needs to be balanced and centered. So how important is that the your perspective in terms of aging? Well,

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 28:34

So I consider myself Sally 2. 0. Um, Sally 1. 0 was a version that was pre 2024. Sally 2. 0 is, is, has dove headfirst into understanding leadership and leading myself. And I would say that I used to be completely exhausted and I don't need to go through all of the ways that I felt and all the ways that I felt badly. But I can tell you now that I wake up every day with hope and optimism, and my hair is getting thicker, and I paint my nails and my staff is happy. My people are happy. And and, and it was so profound understanding how all of these things tied together, that we now have Wednesday meetings. And at our Wednesday meeting, we do two things. One, we open it up with gratitude. Everyone has to say something that they're thankful for because we're spreading that culture within our organization and two. You know, there's this really great movie called Legally Blonde, classic Americana.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 29:40

one of my daughter's favorites. Yeah.

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 29:48

on trial for murder. And she said, listen, there is no way that so and so killed that person. She was like, it's impossible. She just came from the gym. Listen, exercise creates endorphins, endorphins make people happy, and happy people just don't kill other people. And So within our organization of wrestle like a girl, Hey, if you, if you work on our team, you have to have gratitude and you have to work out because exercise creates endorphins, endorphins, make people happy and happy. People just don't kill other people. And so my, my business partner and I, Amy, we've taken it really to heart where one of the things that we do every year is some sort of big event that we have to. We can't just sort of slack off and do. So one year we ran the Grand Canyon. Um, another year we went to the pool and swam a lot of laps. Um, this next year we're looking, um, to do the, um, um, uh, the Santa de Cristo. That's not the name of it. Uh, there's a big walk in Spain. So we're going to go Santa Domingo. I'll look it up. But anyway, When it becomes a lifestyle and you're able to do it in balance and in moderation and include the people that you love into this space, it becomes something joyful that you look forward to and it makes everyone feel good and it helps you just get along better in life. Where before, I wish I would have learned this, which is, hey, I would love to work out with you, but I don't want to do six minute mile repeats because I don't like the way that I feel afterward. And I would have such a hard time telling people because I felt like it made me a coward or it made me weak. And so instead of saying, Hey, I'd like to do that. And I'm going to advocate for myself to say, let's find some common ground, which is let's just walk 15 minute miles and just go out there and have fun. I just wouldn't do it at all. And so I think the other powerful thing about. Um, aging, especially for women, but for men too, is understanding that advocating for yourself isn't weakness. It's actually a strength because it keeps you in the game. It keeps you involved longer and it's not a zero sum game. It's not six minute mile repeats or nothing at all. It's. Hey, here's what I think my body wants and what my body needs. And a reason that was so challenging for me was because I was an athlete at a high level and I did what I was told. And I was a soldier who was enlisted and I did what I was told and now I have to be a leader of a movement and I have to tell people, I mean, it was a complete mental shift and frankly, it was a tectonic shift for me. And so I still find myself, um, My most basic instinct is to say, no, I don't want to do it when in fact, it is, Hey, I would like to be present with you, but my body is feeling a certain kind of way. And I'd like to meet you halfway and, and being okay with the fact that walking is exercising. And I was just listening to one of your podcasts recently, which was when's the best time to work out. And frankly, it's whenever you can get to the gym, it's better, like the better, the best time to work out is whenever you can get there and, and to be able to build a community around you that is able to appreciate those same things. I think that's when you really make, uh, all the good things in life come together.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 33:11

Yeah, I would say you're probably actually Sally 3. 0 because you got that whole kind of pre wrestling Sally and then you got into the, you know, the wrestling that kind of redirected your life and now you're kind of figuring out this next tectonic shift in your life. And I got to ask you, are you spelling gratitude with two T's? Because that's my mission is to kind of get the That word to be changed in its spelling so that we're talking in terms of an attitude of gratitude, which sounds like what you're trying to accomplish in your, your business.

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 33:43

Well, so we don't sign it with two Ts because that's the first I've been hearing of it. So, Hey, I'm open for it. I'll bring it up for discussion. We. We are, um, we work together collaboratively and I am a leader, but I'm also a teammate.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 33:58

Cause that's my mission. One of my missions is to kind of get people to change that spelling to have two Ts in it because it, it does reflect it. Our gratitude is really something of an attitude. I mean, it's easy to say, you know, okay, thank you for doing this. I mean, I'm going to thank you probably many times for doing this podcast with me today, it's, it's that. Continuous attitude of gratitude that really, really drives us and kind of keeps us in the right frame of mind. So I love that that's where you're kind of going with the business. do you have any other advice you could give for women who want to stay active and healthy as they age? And especially for those that don't have a background in sport, because I think those that don't have the background in sport aren't the ones that are so driven to, you know, to do the, you know, six minute mile repeats. Uh, they're just the ones that are probably much more content to just walk with their cup of Starbucks coffee and, and chat with a friend and call it exercise. And we know that somewhere there's gotta be a balance between the two. So you have any, any good advice, any sage advice for women that just want to stay healthy and age well?

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 35:10

When I was deployed to Afghanistan, so I was in a special operations team and I had to do some really brave and courageous things. So this was after wrestling, right? Wrestling. I really cut weight. I was always trying to get to 59 kilos, which was 129. 9 pounds. And I would just, I would work so hard and controlling my nutrition to be small, to be thin, um, to make it so that I didn't have challenges making weight. So then, um, 2012, I'm deployed to Afghanistan, going out and doing some very brave and courageous things. And I recognize that I start to feel this sensation and I don't really know what it is. And it was fear. I would get afraid of some of the things I would have to do. And I would have to jump in with both feet and really punch through fear so I could get to the other side. And for me, that was courage. And one of the things that I did that would help me bolster my courage was I was like, listen, I can no longer be this tiny, small Sally that could make, um, weight easy. I needed to be a jacked, muscly, like absolute womanimal that would eat bullets for breakfast. And so I started going to the gym and there was one special, um, like, um, A place where you could go eat and all they had was barbecued chicken and ribs. And I was like, okay, listen, I know how to eat. I know how to lift. I would go to the cafeteria and I would just start chowing down. I would have three chicken breasts and I would go breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And I'd be drinking pre creatine and I'd drink my pre workout, my post workout. I would be, I would be lifting weights. I lifted weights with the intention of being. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger, but as a female, because that made me feel more confident. That made me feel like I was better and stronger and, and able to do my job. And here was the most fascinating thing that occurred to me. And I saw it in real time where I was, um, small and lean and nimble and quick. And I wanted to become Hercules. And all I did was gain a tremendous amount of muscle, but my body mass really didn't change. And I thought, Oh my gosh, I mean, I could have been eating like this and lifting like this, and I still would have been able to make 59 kilos. My metabolism sped up. Um, my confidence had increased. Um, when I looked in the mirror, I felt better about myself and it brings me back. So here I am like coming out of, um, like last year, I would call it like dark night of the soul where I was really like questioning and contemplating, um, what is God? What is my purpose on, on this planet? What is the meaning of life? And I have come out of that now and I'm back in the gym and I'm lifting and I'm pushing weight again, and I'm eating chicken three times a day and I'm meeting up with friends at the gym and I've made it so that exercise for me, Uh, really is one of the main drivers. It's one of my main five pillars, faith, family, fitness, friends, and finances, fitness is important. And it's a place for me to have sisterhood and for me to come together and, and to be able to come as a very balanced individual that wants to also push themselves physiologically. And I've never heard one person ever complain because they've Um, have lifted weight as they gotten older because they're lifting weights, eating good food, and they're sober. I've only actually ever heard people want to share with others how joyful their life is and how good they feel. I mean, if, if the science shows that being healthy and eating right and, and really, Staying away from all the things that we know that science is showing our processed foods, alcohol, um, candy, and you stay away from it. And it's, and it's not a challenge for your life. Um, why not do it more? Why, like, why do we feel that some place in our life has to, has to suffer that there has to be something that we have to sort of, um, there has to be some sort of wound that we're healing. We don't have to, we can actually just be joyful, complete humans that eat the food we want, that work out, um, doing the exercises that we want with the people that we want, and we can actually have it all. And so for my, um, fellow individuals that are aging and going through life, um, I'm reaffirmed that. If you have it, you got to keep going because a body in motion stays in motion. And the two years that I took off while I was contemplating all these other facets of life, my body got so achy. Um, my mental health went down the hill and I really struggled. And the number one prescription, um, you know, the VA, they, they, they prescribe to you a whole bunch of pills. You don't actually need any of that. You can actually just get your body moving and you can get your endorphins going and you can get your friendships going. And it's all these things that, that we, we already know, but sometimes we get into these mental ruts of being sick. And sometimes if we don't have the ability to reach out, it's someone that wants to reach in, pull us out, and we just have to keep our moving one foot in front of the other, until we get a good pace going, and we make sure that we're surrounded with a community of people that want to go that pace with us. We just keep going forward, and we do it joyfully.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 40:51

I want to comment on a couple examples that you used in, in that answer. And it kind of alludes to how much work you have yet to do. And that's that you referred to being like Schwarzenegger and being like Hercules, both male role models. it just kind of struck me as like, well, what we need to be doing, and what I tell a lot of these young girls that I'm trying to get into wrestling, you got to be, you got to be a Sally. you know, I was thinking there's There's other examples of, you know, bodybuilders and these female heroines that we we should be And women should be in particular, looking to as these are the role models, these are what I want to strive for, you know, it doesn't have to be the male role models, it's got to be, I'm really tapping into my feminist side here,

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 41:46

Well, you know, Jeff, I wanted to say I wanted to look like my friend Sandy, but I don't think anyone, uh, how many people know Sandy Griffin fitness. So hopefully you have her on in a future podcast so that people can see what she looks like. Um, then they would know that because that was the only other like female, um, that I could have drawn.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 42:02

Sandy as well, Sandy is, Sandy has actually been on, I think, or four episodes of the podcast. So,

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 42:10

Oh, has she?

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 42:11

should be fully aware of who she is, as we've moved now into video. Now we'll get her on here so they can actually see her. Um, and might even have to put some of those clips in because she's shared a lot of pictures of kind of the before and after, you know, kind of the, Sandy 1. 0 and the Sandy 2. 0. And, uh, yeah, the phenomenal transformation that she's made in her life with fitness and everything else. So, yeah, she is a great example. Um, we also had, um, It's Sally Hendren. Um, I don't know if you would know her or not. She's another friend of Sandy's we've had on the podcast who is another, and she's a 60 plus bodybuilder. so there are some great examples out there and I think it really important for women to understand that have their role models and let's search them out. Let's put those up on a pedestal, to idolize, but to emulate and to strive for. And so, you know, Absolutely, you know, be a Sally. Be a Sandy.

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 43:11

So, you know, two things. One is that Sandy was the one that wrote me my nutrition program when I was over in Afghanistan and wrote me my strength and conditioning program. So that really was the vision in my head of what I saw when I was lifting weights. And, um, the other, the other example that I want to give about a strong woman. I just. I don't know if people know this, but listen, Red Sonja. Do you know Red Sonja?

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 43:35

Oh, yeah.

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 43:36

That was it. So that's who I wanted to be when I grew up. Um, yeah, Red Sonja. In fact, guess what? I might have to be here for Halloween this year. Most people would be like, who's Red Sonja? I'm like, you don't know Conan's partner in crime?

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 43:52

Yeah, that goes back. Wow. When was that movie out? That just

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 43:56

Oh,

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 43:56

old Arnold is now.

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 43:58

yeah. I mean, it was, uh, 80s. It was in the 80s.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 44:02

I'm trying to remember who played her. Who was the actress that played Red Sonja?

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 44:07

Oh, I don't know. I don't know,

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 44:10

have to

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 44:10

but I need to Google it up and yeah, look it up

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 44:13

So women do have their role models. And so as one of those role models, I want to put out there for all the young ladies that hopefully are listening to this, whether it's a young lady in her teens, twenties, thirties, forties, sixties, um, you're all young ladies in my perspective, but what words of advice do you have, uh, particularly for the girls that are stepping into the pressures of competitive sports?

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 44:39

when you're stepping into the, well, I think two things. One is that this is for the girls and this is also for the parents. Keep it fun for as long as possible because the moment that it becomes competitive and you're training for a national title, a world title, an Olympic title, it becomes serious. And once that flip, once that switch gets flipped. It's really hard to go back. And so keep it fun and make it something that they enjoy doing. And until it gets to the point of having to be competitive, like truly. Then, then you can start to shift gears, but even as you shift gears, you should always be able to have fun and find that enjoyment. Um, studies show that athletes that perform the best are having the most fun. You know, there's, there's this, um, study where they had one person running and you were either running from fear, like there was a lion chasing you, or there was joy at the end of, you know, At the end of the track and you're running towards joy and they found that the people that are running towards joy ran faster than the people running from fear, running from the lion and, and recognizing that there's a point where it becomes competitive, it becomes serious. And, and you have to start dialing it in, in ways that you probably never thought, but you also have to be able to keep your joy

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 46:00

winter

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 46:00

and,

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 46:01

can't

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 46:02

other piece that I want, and this is especially for girls and women,

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 46:05

narrative,

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 46:06

that it's. um, calorie, or faster, stronger, thing you can't make any of that happen without nutrition and for so long we get, um, read this narrative that it's, um, calorie deficiency or it's, um, food manipulation and you should be able to have it all like you should be able to eat in moderation and to be able to eat healthy food and to find things that you like this is again something that my friend sandy taught me was that you can actually make a cheesecake and eat it before a tournament it you swap out the ingredients and if you're outside of the United States, it's usually so much easier because the world tends to eat healthier than we Americans do. And it's, so it's for my girls and my women, like don't be afraid of nutrition and you need to become your own expert because, um, food can be a lot of fun. And it's this magical fuel that you need to be able to really push your body, to be able to do incredible things. The human body is incredible. But it needs to be fueled properly to be able to make that happen.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 47:14

Yeah, one of the, uh, on our wrestling team here in West Lynn, she's been coming into my strength conditioning sessions and, and she was just talking about what she needs to do kind of get to maintaining a little bit closer to her competition weight so she's not having To cut weight, you know, when the season comes around, and I'm just like, eat cleaner, you know, enjoy your food, you know, don't feel like you have to diet, just out the crap, eat healthier, and you're going to be right around the weight you need to be, and she's really only like five pounds over competition weight anyhow, so it's like, that's a breeze to cut, you know, yeah, and I think the same applies, you know, when you talk about running toward the, you know, running toward joy, um, not to shift away from women's sports, but you know, my son was a wrestler and is now kind of any, it disappointed me at first when he decided he wasn't going to wrestle in college. He had some opportunities and I'm like, oh dude, you're missing a great opportunity. I don't want you to look back and say, what if, he wanted to get more involved in combative sports in mixed martial arts. And so he's done that. taking a dive into that. He said his first two amateur fights and won both of those. But when he comes home from training, I have never seen him so excited about the sport, you know, wrestling. He liked and his coach said this. His coach is also a promoter of MMA locally here, and he was talking about his most recent fight. And he said, Liam Armstrong, liked wrestling. He absolutely loves MMA. And it's like it is so true because he is so passionate about it and he's so much more willing to train and eat right for it and everything else. And, you know, male, female, whatever, we have to run to our passions

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 49:11

that's right.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 49:11

really just Kind of go whole hog and trying to accomplish what we're trying to accomplish and so you made a huge transition Really going from an elite athlete to co founding and becoming a CEO of Wrestle like a girl what inspired you to do that? I mean, did you just wake up one day and say okay? Wrestling is kind of at the end. I need to do something. I think I'm gonna start a foundation.

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 49:38

No, it was actually a bit different. It was when I was, I was deployed to Afghanistan and I was out on patrol with, um, the Pathfinders and other special operations group. And we were walking and. We were walking towards a village and I, one of the guys that I was with said, Oh my gosh, will you look at that? I look over to my left and I was like, Oh, like, uh, kids, like what's, what's the big deal? And he said, well, it's a girls. We've never had girls following us before. And I looked over and they saw my eyes and they got excited. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I bet this is the first time they've ever seen women in a position of power. Or like I'm at the. Front of the I'm at the front of the group and I'm leading men and I look over and I say, like, I just give them an acknowledgement and the girls just come rushing over towards us. And, you know, in Afghanistan, you just put your thumb to their thumb and it's like this little Afghan high five. So I'm giving all these little girls Afghan high fives. And it was in that moment that I knew that I wanted to serve, like that felt good to me. And I didn't know exactly what that meant. I didn't have any idea. So I was like, well, I knew I wanted to serve. I just didn't know what that was going to look like. And when I came home, I was, uh, I got redeployed. I came back to Fort Carson. I was wrestling in Colorado Springs at the world class athlete program. And as you know, for wrestling, all of our best ideas happen when we're in the sauna. So I'm in the sauna and I'm sitting around with some of my, my other friends, like, um, high level athletes. And we're sitting around and frankly, we're kind of like, we're griping about the things that USA Wrestling isn't doing right. Well, you know, the women aren't getting this and the women aren't getting this. And this is failing us and this is failing us. And I thought, wait a minute here. I said, I wanted to serve. There's clearly a need for an advocacy organization. Why don't, why don't we just create that? And so I sat around thinking, well, hard, how hard could it be? And I had this, so I, now I had this concept that I wanted to serve. Now I had this concept that there was this need for an advocacy organization, like the voice of the affected athlete is the most powerful on the planet. Like there's something that needs to be explored there. And then fast forward, I was at a, by just a couple of weeks, I got invited to go to a wrestling tournament, a little kids, a boys and girls youth wrestling tournament, and, uh, there's this girl, she just beat a boy. And as she's walking off the mat, someone says something to her and she starts crying and her mom brings this little girl over to me and I look at her and say, Hey, what's going on? Like, why are you crying? And she said, well, I'm crying because. Because I just, I just beat this boy. And he said that didn't matter because I wrestled like a girl. And I was like, Whoa, what does that mean? Like I'm a, I'm a two time world bronze medalist. I wrestle like a girl. And I said, you just beat him and you wrestle like a girl. I said, it sounds to me like. If that boy wanted to win, maybe he should have wrestled like a girl too. And so now I like had this, like this sensation happening within me, the way I had my experience in Afghanistan. I had my experience in the sauna and I had my experience here. And then it was like, it all came together. And I was like, Oh, I'm going to found an advocacy organization called wrestle like a girl. That's going to support girls and women in the sport of wrestling, because Girls that are the ages of 12 shouldn't be their own advocates to try and get opportunities for them to be able to wrestle, um, at high schools and in colleges, like they need adults to be able to do that for them. And so I actually, I founded this organization, but it was funny because I still, because of my background and I hadn't dove into leadership, I called a handful of my friends and I said, Hey, we need this organization. 501 C paperwork. I would like to hand it off to you. I think you're going to be amazing at it. And they were like, No, I don't wanna do this work. Click, click everyone who's hanging up on me. And I remember sitting down like, oh my God, I think I'm gonna have to do it myself. And I did. And so I, you know, the organization got going and about five years in, that's where the pandemic hits. Oh, this is really important. The pandemic hits. I'm at my house in Colorado Springs and I am going through a divorce. I have no idea what the hell I'm doing for running this business. Um, I, I've been sitting for like two years sedentary. Um, this was before I found my business coach and I had to, Oh, and I got a phone call from Hollywood asking if I wanted to come out and star in a movie. If you know anything about me, it's that I absolutely want to be in Hollywood and I want to be an actress like for the love of all things. Holy, this is all I've wanted. I knew I would be amazing. So I'm like, okay, well, I have to make a decision. So for about two weeks, I remember walking around my house, like really ripping my hair out. What do I do? Do like the organization hasn't gotten enough money to get off the ground and no one wants this organization. I've already tried. Um, but if I leave it and I go act, then this organization is going to die. And basically what have I done for the last five years? So I have to make either a decision that I'm going to sit at the helm of this organization and truly become a leader, or I'm going to go to Hollywood and fulfill my lifetime dream of being an actor and whatever's going to happen. And yeah, I remember like dialing a number, picking up the phone and telling my board chair, I'm Hey, I'm all in. Um, can we get on the zoom next week and can you teach me how to read a, like how to create a budget? Like I was so sad, but I was all in. And so I then, um, you know, I put the idea of going to Hollywood and acting on the back burner. And I made that commitment to myself that I was going to truly learn how to become a CEO and lead a company and learn the X's and O's in business and how to speak the language of money and how to. Really make magic happen. So our goal within the organization, um, it's to have a$5 million endowment by 2035. Um, have all 50 states sanctioned to recognize girls high school wrestling as an official sport. Um, have attained NCAA championships. So the girls that wrestle in high school, um, have affordable in state opportunities to wrestle for an NCAA championship. Um, the, and the, the NAIA already has that championship and the junior colleges, that pathway is getting created. And it's to, um, also work within nations to help them build out their female wrestling pipeline, um, with the idea that nations wrestle freestyle and they'll be able to come back. To the United States, wrestle at NCAA institutions and be able to pair their education with wrestling and go back to their home nations and, um, be productive citizens of society so that we can really start to shape and redirect our global world. Using, using our most powerful and untapped asset, which is our girls and women.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 56:58

So now I know why the movie Red Sonja was never made. So do you have any, uh, really kind of specific success stories that come out of Wrestle Like a Girl and, um, maybe that can help inspire some others?

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 57:17

Yeah, well, you know, my biggest takeaway, cause at a certain point, like, man, you just have to put yourself out there all the time and let's try this and see if this works and let's try this and see if this works and, and I had to do one thing that was really important. And one is that I had to give myself creative freedom to take chances. And. And so, you know, here's the thing. I could talk about wrestling and I could talk about the military and I had to be able to go to dinner parties and engage with people from all walks of life, from all different social stratospheres. And that meant that I had to, I had to learn about other things to talk about. So. I had to give myself permission to take chances. And the way that I did that was by allowing myself to become the world's most interesting woman. And that meant when people called me up, because before people would come up and say, Hey, do you want to do this? I'd say, no, I'm busy. I'm working. And I'd be working so hard on understanding financials and profit and loss statements. huh. didn't have time for anything else. get so, Now my friends call me up and say, hey Sal, do you want to go salsa dancing? just, I'll go. Hey Sal, do you want to go to this pasta making class? Okay, I'll go. Hey, do you want to go and started Um, you know, do you want to come and learn how to make, um, blended more towards from this incredible chef? Okay, I'll go. And it's like, well, what does that have to do about anything? Well, what are the chances that I'm going to be sitting at a table with the ambassador of Peru who's talking about their GDP, and one of their biggest exports is avocado, and can I tell you the difference between different types of avocados? Well, wildly enough, I actually can because I went to this class so I knew how to, how to make avocado, like just different meals. And so being able to give myself the permission to say yes, and in, in, in tandem with that, I also had to learn how to, you know, in wrestling, my national team coach, Terry Steiner, he would say. You don't, you don't, you're not, it's okay to fail as long as you fail forward. But I even had to do it differently than that. I had to say, experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. And I just continued to look for different experiences that there was no winning or losing. I was just getting an experience out of it. And, and when I started to approach life in. A way of that lended more towards curiosity. It, it made me have more fun as a business leader and really more fun as, as an athlete. Right? Like, Hey, do you want to go play pickleball? Okay. Do you want to go do what is the thing I've recently done? I recently done Pilates. I remember I called it my girlfriend, Sarah McMahon. And I said, Sarah, I got to tell you, I was really nervous to tell anyone I did this, but I went and did Pilates. And she said, What did you think? I said, it was wildly, it was one of the most challenging exercises that I've done. I had no idea. I had all these tiny muscles. And she said, I actually just recently went and did Pilates too. And I agree. So here you have these two combat athletes. I thought we were each going to get made fun of, because we're now talking about doing Pilates in our forties. And in fact, we're finding that there's so many different ways to exercise and move your body and find joy in it. And it's by allowing yourself. Um, the permission to have fun and to become very interesting and get curious about life.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 1:00:49

All right. So this kind of brings us to the point in the interview that I ask the question I ask of all my guests, and you've kind of alluded to it here and there throughout the interview, but what are you doing personally to age well?

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 1:01:01

Oh, so I'm, I'm having a lot of fun aging. Well, um, personally, um, So I'm dialing in my nutrition. I'm learning how to cook. I really like pasta. I really like the Italian style of cooking. Um, I have, um, also just recently dove into arugula. Holy smokes. I didn't know that you could like a form of lettuce so much. So I've been really investing, um, my mental faculties into cooking, into reading cookbooks and understanding heat, fire, salt, things like that. Um, I've also started to recognize like, You know, you've mentioned it earlier in our conversation, um, mind, body, spirit. Well, the piece that I kept forgetting was the emotions actually. So I started working with a therapist. Um, I went down to Mexico. I did some ancient medicines. I did a psychedelic experience for trauma survivors. And it was like, I had this, um, cathartic release. It was, um, it was like an emotional enema. And I remember I came back from that and I'm still working. I'm doing all these other things. I'm just like adding in more. More flavor and seasonings into my life and just becoming a very in my, like an attempt to be a very healthy, grounded person. And so I came back, I had this emotional enema of an experience and I'm sitting down and I'm talking to one of my friends and I'm like, I just can't stop crying all week. I've just been like crying and I'm just starting to figure out like, there's clearly something wrong with me. And I was on WebMD and I'm writing down, I'm like self diagnosing and I, it's time for me to have my. weekly check in with my therapist. And she's like, well, how was your week? And I said, well, I'm here to say I've got some really bad news. And she's like, well, what's going on? I was like, I was on WebMD and I can't figure out what my problem is, but I've been looking at my symptoms and I've narrowed it down to I'm psychotic. Okay. What are you, what are you talking about? And I was like, I just, I can't stop crying. I've been crying all week. And she said, well, before we start to really push the gas on a self diagnosis, she was like, let's just wait another week and then come back to the table and talk about it. And she said, but for this week, I just want you to sort of sit with your emotions. I just want you to like feel them. And I'm like, Okay. Like, I don't even know what it means to feel them. It's just like, I'm sitting in a chair and like rocking myself and like self soothing and hugging. Like I should be in a straitjacket. And we come back for my next week meeting and she was like, how did it go? And I was like, like the craziest thing happened. Like I was like crying really hard Monday through Wednesday. And then on like Thursday, I cried sporadically and Friday I was sort of okay. So, Saturday was okay. Sunday, I went for a run. Like I didn't try and drink my emotions away or eat them or run them. I just sort of sat and just like, let the emotions pour through me. And she said, yeah, so I don't actually think that you're psychotic or bipolar or manic or any of these things. She said, I think you're actually acknowledging your feelings for the first time in your life. And I was like, you mean people feel like this all the time? He was like, well, no, but if you've turned them off for the last 30 years and then you've opened them back up, like there is going to be, um, an emotional experience that you have to start getting regulated. So I'm aging well by Allowing my emotions to flow freely, um, recognizing that crying is cathartic and it's not a form of weakness and being able to talk about what I want and what I need as a healthy individual that's able to be in a secure relationship with my friends and my family. And, um, I'm really working on, um, undoing generational traumas that have been following my entire family and the lineage. And I'm, I'm working on just. Being healthy all around. Like I'm not trying to become a bodybuilder or an ultra marathon runner. I'm learning how to just exist and be joyful and happy in my skin and carrying that with me through my lifespan.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 1:05:05

Maybe that's Sally 4. 0. What are the future goals for Wrestle Like a Girl and how do you envision the impact of the organization on the next generation of female athletes?

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 1:05:19

Yeah. Good question. So wrestle like a girl. I'll tell you we're growing. We continue to add one of our, one of our strengths as an organization is that We surround ourself with people that are far more brilliant than I, and we've just expanded our board an additional two members, and we're coming together to really talk about what is wrestle like a girl look like, um, for the next 5, years. And where do we want to be? And how are we going to backwards plan to get there? So wrestle like a girl, we're going to We're going to continue to be the global advocacy organization for girls and women in wrestling. We're still going to continue to be human rights defenders that speak up and speak out on behalf of our athletes around the globe that, um, can be targeted and harassed because they come from an elite athlete world where they're held in high esteem. Um, we're going to continue to fundraise, but I think the main focus that I have, and this continues to come forward is that, um, The golden rule, whoever has the gold makes the rules. And as we're looking at women's sports and we're looking at this particular landscape, if you want to be a driver of making things happen, you have to understand the value of money and how to bring money into your sport. So I'm looking at wrestle like a girl and we're fundraising. So we right now have a, um, a campaign that's called the futures fund. And our goal is to raise 5 million to support the 50th anniversary of title nine. Um, We just secured our first 1 million. And that came from 10 donors from within the wrestling space. And now we're reaching broaching and going out beyond the wrestling space. Um, and we're having conversations with foundations and corporations to say, here's our vision. We want to get, um, 15, 000, we want to get 250, 000 girls wrestling in the United States. That's the equivalent of how many boys are wrestling. Although it just went up to 300, 000 cause boys are growing. So we're girls. So we want to get 300, 000 girls wrestling in the United States. How are we going to do that? We're going to do that by getting 15, 000 female wrestling coaches, women that are new to the sport of wrestling. We want to get them involved into the sport and we're going to empower them to go out and do clinics to get more girls to wrestle. So that 5 million that we're raising, it's going to be coaches education. It's going to be advocacy and it's going to be, um, Devoted to research that we can go and say, here's, here's the girls that are now wrestling. Here's, here's the girls that make up the composite of our sport. There are girls that have been invisible. Girls and women, they haven't, we're not taking them from other sports for the most part. Maybe they play additional sports after we get them involved. But for the most part, they haven't played a sport before. And, and they also come from challenging backgrounds. Like the idea that girls and women are these demure, quiet creatures. Jeff, you and I both know that's not the case. Like, we want to be unbridled, unrestricted to feel the true essence and the ferocity of what it is that makes up our constitution and our soul. And we want to be able to unleash that in a space where we are not just granted permission, but we're celebrated for being as authentic and vivacious as we want to, and really being able to own our space, our voice, our body. So getting coaches that are new to our sport that are able to go out and support pulling more girls in and giving them the opportunity because we've seen that it is the opportunity that facilitates the interest. Let's create the opportunity, let the girls come in and we'll see where the sport goes from there. For the most part, Wrestle Like a Girl, we've been so focused on policy change, that we haven't been driving concerted efforts to get girls into the sport. Because, by and large, when we first started Wrestle Like a Girl in 2016, there was only six states in the union that recognized girls high school wrestling as an official sport. As of today, We now got that number to 47, 47 states. So the four that we have left, um, includes Washington, DC, Vermont, Delaware, Kentucky. Washington, D. C. And when we get all those states, now every state in the union will recognize girls high school wrestling as an official sport. That means girls get to wrestle other girls for a high school state championship, That means that girls are not wrestling boys, There means the injury rates are not like when girls were wrestling boys, we could show that injury rates would go up. Self confidence for girls and boys would decrease. They didn't like wrestling each other. The biggest driver of what we had to do was, was, was change the narrative of what wrestling meant. Girls want to wrestle girls, boys want to wrestle boys, and there is a new narrative that is coming up that we could talk about, probably not for this podcast, but, well, how does, how does the transgender mix in with that? As of right now, that's not even a topic that we're necessarily addressing because we still have four states where it is mixed gender, where you have girls and boys wrestling each other, and we need to be able to segregate them out so that we can create their own pipelines. And so. pipeline. With To go back to your original question, where are we going to be? We want to be able to have 300, 000 girls wrestling. We want to have, um, collegiate opportunities, championships across all associations. We want to be able to have high school state championships, every state in the union. And we want to be able to start supporting other nations, building their female wrestling pipeline so that they can get the same benefits. Knowing that when, what makes America special, and I know that you know this cause you're an educator. Is that we are the only the country on the planet If that pairs athletics with education. the United If you want to wrestle outside of the United States, you're wrestling for a club. It's not associated with your school. have success one of the first countries that we've started to have success with that model is with the nation of Jordan, where they paired, Um, and it went with the private school, it was the private institutions. an said, we will. We will make wrestling an afterschool sport for boys and girls. wrestled, um, happened because the king wrestled, the prince, his brother wrestled. Um, there's a thousand princes within that country that everyone wrestles. And it's a country that is surrounded by conflict. is yeah, we need our girls to wrestle because life is not going to get easier. You've got, um, Israel, you have Palestine, you have Azerbaijan, you have, um, Armenia, like all these countries are surrounding us. Saudi Arabia, Russia. Yeah, we need tough, strong girls that can think for themselves, that can also, here's something fascinating. I'm going off on a tangent. You're probably ready to hang up on me. It's that in Jordan, 13, uh, 97 percent of the women in Jordan are educated and literate. Only 13 percent of them work outside of the home. And they came to us and said, Hey, we don't know how to change this. How do we bridge this cultural gap? Uh, we need workers. We don't have enough workers. And right now, we're getting influxed with so many refugees that we're now having to figure out how do we incorporate the refugees into our work pipeline when in fact we have women that are competent, capable, speak the language, and understand the culture. And I said, well, I don't necessarily know how you can do all that, but I'll tell you, I can teach wrestling. And if they can use that space to become more confident in who they are, we can use that to start driving a different cultural narrative about what life is. Can look like beyond the wrestling mat. And so this, this, this beautiful gift, um, that found me when I was so very young, we're now taking it across the globe so that it can find other girls and women and being able to reshape lives and change narrative so that they can be whatever it is they want to be when they grow up.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 1:12:55

I hope the listener or viewer, whichever avenue they're getting this podcast, that if they take anything away from it. from this episode is that they see what passion can do for you in your lives and just follow that passion because again, I was getting chills as you just went through that last answer again, because the passion that you have for the sport, for women, for your country, the list goes on. I mean, you are just like the epitome of passion and as expected, this has been a fun and really inspiring conversation. So how can those listeners or viewers, especially those that want to support women's wrestling and the efforts to grow the sport, how can they learn more about you, connect with you, and with Wrestle Like a Girl? Obviously there's a website, there's social media that you can share with us.

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 1:13:47

Yeah, we have a website, WrestleLikeAGirl. org. Um, I think we also got WrestleLikeAGirl. com, so we got both of them. And we have, we have social media, so WrestleLikeAGirl, across the platforms for Twitter, it's W R S T L E. There's no E, we ran into a character count. And then, um, listen, there's a few ways to get involved. One is that, If you have a business or a foundation and you want to engage us, yeah, we would love that because you helping us means that we're able to drive our vision and drive our mission and support these girls. I love speaking. So I'm, I'm actually doing a couple more keynotes for companies. I'm coming out, talking to them. I would love to do, um, more speaking engagements, those that that's actually the first three years, how I funded wrestle like a girl. Um, as we were getting the organization off the ground. And also we've got some really terrific events. Um, we have our gala that is annual in the month of October. You can sponsor that. You can get a ticket. You can sponsor a girl that would otherwise not be able to attend. Um, and purchasing a ticket, we'll allocate that to a young girl so she can come and, and hear the words of what we espouse when we're talking about Women's wrestling, creating the next generation of leaders. And we also, um, we own the property of the National Collegiate Women's Wrestling Championships, and that is going to be the championship that will eventually become the NCAA championship. Uh, this year we have a minimum of 95 NCAA institutions that can qualify for that championship. We have 350 athletes from NCAA institutions that will be wrestling at that championship. We have now six qualifiers that the athletes have to compete in to get to that championship. And we need event sponsors. So if you guys are like, Hey, I love women's wrestling. I love Sally. I want to get involved. Or if you're like, Dude, this is going to be the Mecca. This is absolutely where I need to be able to sell my product. And I don't even know what your product is, but you have 350 eyeballs that have been so long ignored, but they have money. Their parents have money and they would love to purchase things if they know that you're there to support women's wrestling. So there's a few different, Oh, and also check this out. If you're like, Hey, listen. I just like to host golf outings. I just want to have parties at my house. We would love to collaborate because there's a lot of different ways to fundraise where your skills, gifts, talents, and abilities can in fact support Wrestle Like a Girl and there's ways to get you involved.

jeff_1_08-26-2024_132200: 1:16:15

That is awesome. And I will share all those links if I can keep them all up, figure out what all they are. But Sally, I thank you for your time. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I love what you were doing. I love the impact that I've personally seen you having on the sport and young women. keep doing what you're doing and keep aging well.

sally-roberts--she-her-_1_08-26-2024_162200: 1:16:39

Thank you.

1:16:41

Thank you for listening. I hope you benefited from today's podcast. Until next time, keep aging well.